# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/801 "2023-02-03T13:18:50Z")
Why are you pretending to care about the sovereign nation your hero attacked? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/802 "2023-02-03T13:47:44Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Why can’t we get more, 100’s more, to Ukraine NOW. Because we live in a kleptocracy with a single ruler for the past 24 years which swims in corruption to the point that generals whose official salary for their entire tenure couldn’t hope to come close to being able to afford the mansions costing tens of millions of dollars that they somehow have managed to own. The 10,000 tanks we inherited from the Soviet Union to defend the _rodina_ from NATO (hah!) have spent the last three decades sitting exposed to the elements in open storage rotting away while the money allocated to performing proper preventative maintenance on them went into the pockets of generals to afford said mansions and the soldiers tasked with maintaining them followed the example of their commanders and stole anything they could manage to in order to sell on the black market. Oh wait, we’re back to concern trolling pretending we support Ukraine Komrad? You’re not fooling anyone, go back to your bot farm you fucking Putin troll. > [@RickJay](#): > > Well, not with regards to the Ukraine war, as noted in point 3, which states a mercenary is by definition someone not a citizen or resident of a belligerent state. (That is, by the way, consistent with the definition in international law.) I believe all, or almost all, Wagner thugs are Russian and if not I am sure the Wagner guy can ensure they are legal residents. > > MORALLY, I consider them mercenaries and their officers should all be hanged. Legally, probably not though. Noone in Wagner qualifies as “a person fulfilling official duties”, so they all fail on point 3, even in Ukraine. It’s even more than just Wagner not being an official branch of the Russian military, or a group contracted by the government to perform an official duty. Wagner did not officially exist at all until November last year, and only exists as a ‘management consulting’ firm. [Kremlin: Russian Firms Can Ignore ‘Unfriendly’ Foreign Shareholders - The Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/01/17/kremlin-russian-firms-can-ignore-unfriendly-foreign-shareholders-a79968) > A joint stock company called “PMC Wagner Center” has now been registered in St. Petersburg, according to the BBC, which also established that until now there had never been a legal entity called Wagner officially registered in Russia. > > In its registration documents, PMC Wagner Center described its activities as including business and management consulting, publishing, media, scientific development, and the leasing of ships and airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/803 "2023-02-03T14:51:24Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Noone in Wagner qualifies as “a person fulfilling official duties”, so they all fail on point 3, even in Ukraine. It’s even more than just Wagner not being an official branch of the Russian military, or a group contracted by the government to perform an official duty. Wagner did not officially exist at all until November last year, and only exists as a ‘management consulting’ firm. Point 3 alone doesn’t make a person a mercenary; note the “also” conjunction. The person must qualify on both sides of that word. Anyway, it’d be easy enough to say they’re there on officially authorized duties. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/804 "2023-02-03T15:07:55Z")
You guys are missing a couple points, or at least ignoring them. 1. The letter of the law is irrelevant. In practice the law in Russia is whatever the kleptocrats decide it is. If Putin decides Wagner’s practices are fine, then they’re fine and it makes no difference that there’s rules written somewhere that they’re breaking. I mean, even if they somehow technically slide past the definition of mercenary, it’s not like it’s legal to cave conscripts heads in with a sledgehammer for insubordination. 2. In a system like Russia’s, it’s really, really handy for the guy at the top if all of his subordinates are in violation of the letter of the law. It makes it much easier to dispose of them if they become a threat to him. The show trials are much more convincing when the targets really are guilty of the crimes they’re accused of. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/805 "2023-02-03T17:45:26Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The letter of the law is irrelevant. In practice the law in Russia is whatever the kleptocrats decide it is. If Putin decides Wagner’s practices are fine, then they’re fine and it makes no difference that there’s rules written somewhere that they’re breaking. Russia is ruled by a dictator, full stop. That means whatever he dictates is what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/806 "2023-03-22T04:05:51Z")
U.S. having hard time supplying tanks to Ukraine? > **[The U.S. Army's Huge Tank Stockpile in the California Desert](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sierra-army-depot)** > > The Sierra Depot is one of the largest fleets of armored vehicles in the world. > **[Tank graveyard exemplifies pork-barrel spending](https://www.kjrh.com/newsy/a-tank-graveyard-is-the-perfect-example-of-porkbarrel-spending_)** > > A tank program the military said it doesn't need is a result of pork-barrel spending meant to bring money to a lawmaker's home district. Ukraine is being used as a proxy by the U.S. I could say lambs to the slaughter, but they definitely are not lambs, fighting like tigers. But the U.S. is using them. Fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian. Of course these tanks are not battle ready to ship right this minute. But the minute amounts promised on a long time line is BS. These tanks could at the least be used very quickly as mobile artillery or defensive fire units. Maybe there is not enough ammunition for them? That would be a decent excuse for not sending them. But then it raises the obvious pork barrel question. Why so many tanks, when you cannot actually support them in the field? The U.S. and a lot of NATO members have a likely unusable military force if faced with a large scale war. Mighty in some facets, but not really effective in others. Supply logistics of ammo and the nuts and bolts stuff being the worst. China is observing this war. While the U.S. is practically putting a date on when they will go to war with China. I suspect that the massive manufacturing base in China will have a sufficient amount devoted to military logistics, while the U.S. piles up big ticket items in desert parking lots, with nothing to supply them. Two thousand guns, 200 bullets? Over and over again it is reported the Russians are running out of this or that. But this and that keeps exploding on the Ukrainians! In 10 to 1 ratios at least. The west needs to get their military logistics in order. I am sure the U.S. at least has some decent stockpiles that they are not deploying in this conflict. At least one wise decision, but a harsh one. But I do think they are still short of a solid large scale supply line. So maybe put off the war with China for a bit? Ukraine forces are being chewed up, bit by bit. Losing a war of attrition. At this point, the best I can hope for them is only losing two of the Donbass regions and Crimea. I hope they can regain the other regions fully. By warfare or negotiation. The Breaking News of the Invasion thread? A joke. It should be called the Say something, anything, positive regarding Ukraine situation. Or say nothing at all. Breaking news? I’ll break the news to you. Ukraine has been used up by the people who wanted exactly that. Fight them over there with the people over there. It disgusts me. Mass murder. To no useful end whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/807 "2023-03-22T04:14:40Z")
_yawn_. You’re down to using the same bullshit cite you used 2 months ago you fucking Putin troll. Oh, and repeating the same debunked pro-Kremlin horseshit you’ve been spouting since forever. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/808 "2023-03-22T06:05:41Z")
The United States is using Ukraine as a proxy? Pray tell, what does the word _proxy_ mean in your dictionary? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/809 "2023-03-22T06:32:35Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Ukraine forces are being chewed up, bit by bit. Maybe fucking Russia shouldn’t have fucking invaded a fucking sovereign country for no fucking purpose but to acquire territory by whatever fucking means necessary, you fucking asshole. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/810 "2023-03-22T06:38:22Z")
What I always find hilarious about pro-Russian partisans is that first they claim, of course, that “Russia is AWESOME”, but when presented with incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, they always shift gears to “Russia may suck, but the entire rest of the world is EVEN WORSE!” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/811 "2023-03-22T07:01:02Z")
In a country of the blind the one-eyed man is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/812 "2023-03-22T08:58:52Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > the U.S. is practically putting a date on when they will go to war with China. Where do you get this crap from? If the west wants to break China it can do so without a single foot on the ground such is China’s reliance on imports for raw materials and their awful demographic situation. If there is to be a war the date will be China’s choice. The date will be the day they invade Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/813 "2023-03-22T09:24:40Z")
I honestly don’t understand how much entertainment the pro-China or pro-Russia trolls get out of this. I mean, sure, maybe it’s fun, but sometimes they go to real lengths, such as writing very long posts. Is the ratio of fun-to-effort really THAT high? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/814 "2023-03-22T09:31:26Z")
Eh, it’s a living. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/815 "2023-03-22T10:27:01Z")
They get paid by the letter. Bonus $ for the number of lies. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/816 "2023-03-22T12:57:52Z")
What’s causing Kedikat’s current angst is [the speedup of U.S. Abrams tank delivery](https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-abrams-tanks-94294a9c1e1acc50098afa440bcb4d40) to Ukraine. Just another heartbreaking sign that he won’t be attending victory parades in Moscow anytime in the foreseeable future. But not to worry, the Russians can dig deep into their stockpiles to counter this threat. > **[BT-2 (Bystrochodnij Tankov)](https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=592)** > > Detailing the technical specifications, development, and operational history of the BT-2 (Bystrochodnij Tankov) including pictures. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/817 "2023-03-22T13:09:19Z")
We hadn’t heard from Comrade Kedi in so long, I figured he must’ve been conscripted. In other news, Asshole Putin continues his unilateral and unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation killing innocent people. Get the fuck out of Ukraine! > **[Russia Launches Attacks Across Ukraine, Killing Four in School Dormitory](https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-fires-armed-drones-across-ukraine-killing-three-in-school-dormitory-aae731d6)** > > Ukraine’s air force said it shot down most of the Iranian-made drones launched by Russia as Moscow renewed its strategy of striking civilian infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/818 "2023-03-22T14:56:15Z")
You’re not simply an asshole. Assholes I can deal with. But you’re a profoundly _stupid_ asshole. That’s a bad combination in and of itself. However, you’re also a profoundly stupid asshole defending a country that unilaterally started this war by invading a sovereign nation in contravention of international law, and is 100% responsible for all the death and destruction that has occurred there. 100%. This trio (asshole, stupid, evil) sums you up in entirety. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/819 "2023-03-22T20:57:03Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What’s causing Kedikat’s current angst is [the speedup of U.S. Abrams tank delivery](https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-abrams-tanks-94294a9c1e1acc50098afa440bcb4d40) to Ukraine. > > Just another heartbreaking sign that he won’t be attending victory parades in Moscow anytime in the foreseeable future. > > But not to worry, the Russians can dig deep into their stockpiles to counter this threat. > > [BT-2 (Bystrochodnij Tankov)](https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=592) You aren’t even _that_ far off, this just showed up on my YouTube recommendations, T-54s have been seen being moved by train out of storage in the Russian Far East: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/dBS9NGiQzqw/maxresdefault.jpg "Russians are Sending T-54 tanks to Ukraine!? Are they out of tanks?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBS9NGiQzqw) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/820 "2023-03-22T21:06:18Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The Breaking News of the Invasion thread? A joke. It should be called the Say something, anything, positive regarding Ukraine situation. Or say nothing at all. Breaking news? You know what? Fuck you, you stupid fucking troll. Just fuck off already you waste of carbon. Your spiel is stall and getting desperate. Go crawl back under your Moscow bridge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=42)