# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/881 "2023-03-25T22:06:31Z")
Bullshit Russian propaganda. I don’t know how you expect anyone to believe such lies. Putin and his stooges are proven liars, over and over again. And you parrot those lies as if it’s not obvious for everyone to see. Fuck you, lying troll. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/882 "2023-03-25T22:09:28Z")
Thank you for your informative and inciteful reply. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/883 "2023-03-25T22:11:16Z")
You want me to do research to back up **your** claims? That’s not how shit works, komrade. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/884 "2023-03-25T22:34:46Z")
On me being an actual paid propagandist. I suspect on basis of volume and content I would have been laid off long ago. This board is the only place I bother to discuss this issue. And take some long breaks at that. I read the other thread daily. It does have some good information. But too much fluff too. I poke fun at it being a breaking news thread due to all the fluff. And what is not discussed. But a lot of great technical detail is there. I am not really cheering either side on. I think the whole thing is a horrible mess. Death and destruction that could have been avoided by multiple sides being more reasonable. I look at it in a technical way. Currently and leading up to it. The whole thing is wrong. Most if not all wars are. When Ukraine regains territory or makes a good hit on Russian forces, I applaud that. Not in the overall morals of the situation, but militarily. Similar with Russia. Same thing on political and economic realms. Each side makes wins and losses. I can admire the skills that accomplished that. But wish the whole thing was just not happening at all. These wins and losses by the various sides ultimately seem pyrrhic to me. But I have to keep watching and digging into the why and how of what is happening. I feel both sides have legitimate or at least what they feel are legitimate reasons for this C… F… But they did not get together and seriously figure out how to avoid the whole mess, when they could have. I look at the reality on the ground and in the unreal political realm and opine on what I think it is. Maybe after all this stupid amount of loss is over, there might be some long term gain after. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/885 "2023-03-25T22:39:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Kedikat](#): > > > > Oh, I forgot. The Ukraine military was on the verge of fully invading the two Donbass breakaway areas. > > You do realize, of course, that it’s logically impossible for Ukraine to invade Donbass? Or Crimea, for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/886 "2023-03-25T22:42:34Z")
As it is impossible for China to invade Taiwan? Elaborate. I think I know the strawman route you are going… ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/887 "2023-03-25T22:45:20Z")
I did include the concept of civil war in the post i think. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/888 "2023-03-25T22:47:41Z")
No, I don’t think you do, but perhaps I WAS being a bit more oblique than you’re equipped to handle. I’ll just say it plainly: Crimea is part of Ukraine, full stop. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/889 "2023-03-25T22:51:50Z")
There’s no actual evidence that anything close to the majority of the Donetsk region wants to separate from Ukraine, and plenty of evidence that the majority wants to remain in Ukraine. You’re just spouting bullshit Putin propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/890 "2023-03-25T22:56:14Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > On me being an actual paid propagandist. To be fair, I **don’t** think you’re a paid propagandist. I think you just do that sort of work as a hobby, you admire what Russia does and want to promote it in your spare time. It’s like the difference between working as a hit man or being a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/891 "2023-03-26T00:09:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no actual evidence that anything close to the majority of the Donetsk region wants to separate from Ukraine, and plenty of evidence that the majority wants to remain in Ukraine. You’re just spouting bullshit Putin propaganda. Further than that, almost half the people of Donetsk Oblast are not in the area controlled by the so-called DPR, and are fighting tooth and nail to stay that way. And of course back in 2014 the so-called separatist fighters were made up mostly of Russian soldiers, the ‘little green men.’ The myth of separatist sentiment in the Donbas is almost entirely the invention of Russian propaganda, although there is of course a little sincere collaboration going on as well. Largely by the oligarch class who viewed the move away from being cozy with Russia following the Maidan Revolution as a threat to the grift coming in from corruption. Even the claims of separatist sentiment in Crimea are propaganda bullshit. Here, for example, is convicted war criminal Igor Girkin (for the downing of MH17) admitting that the local authorities in Crimea “supported” the annexation because his militias rounded them up and had them vote at gunpoint: > ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/892 "2023-03-26T00:13:26Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > I refrain from posting what Ukraine is doing to many of it’s citizens as a retort. Please don’t refrain. I’m just dying waiting to hear your tales of Ukraine arresting tens of thousands of anti-war protesters, stealing 12 year olds from their parents for refusing to draw their required Z propaganda in school art class, war crimes committed by them in their invasion of Russia, Stalinist pro-Z rallies where workers are required to attend by their workplace or face ‘repercussions’, the warrant for Zelensky’s arrest for war crime by the ICC, Zelensky political opponents having the strange habit of throwing themselves out of windows or being poisoned by nerve agents, the Ukraine’s decent into authoritarianism, its use of convicted murderers and rapists as ‘soldiers’ by a mercenary company in exchange for their extralegal pardon for their crimes should they somehow survive their 6 month long stint as absolute cannon fodder, extralegal executions of said ‘soldiers’ by their mercenary company leaders by bludgeoning them in the skull with a sledgehammer for surrendering, the forced deportation of Russian citizens from Russian cities obliterated by the Ukrainians to part unknown inside Ukraine… I could go on for pages, you’d still have nothing to retort with, and either way a grand total of zero people here would believe any of the bullshit you spew, so kindly take your ‘refraining’ and shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/893 "2023-03-26T00:26:08Z")
“I will refrain from posting any evidence because I am a lying asshole moron.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/894 "2023-03-26T05:29:54Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The shop in Scranton U.S. puts out 14000 a month. About 3 shells a minute? Not bad when you see pictures of the plant. It is not a modern facility. Hmmmm. I note that this [“14,000 shells a month”](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates) is now pretty much a direct Putin quote. It seems that friend Kedikat is getting talking points directly from the Kremlin. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/895 "2023-03-26T06:05:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I note that this [“14,000 shells a month”](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates) is now pretty much a direct Putin quote. That’s actually a widely reported number of the pre-war production capacity - if Putin used it he probably plucked it out of the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/03/08/us-weapons-manufacturing-ukraine/) or something. The current published goals per that article (also widely published) is to have that ramped up to 30,000/month in the next few months, with a longer-term aspiration goal of 90,000/month. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/896 "2023-03-26T11:01:26Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The shop in Scranton U.S. puts out 14000 a month. About 3 shells a minute? 14,000÷30≅467 units per day 467÷24≅19 units per hour 19÷60≅.32 units per minute 1÷.32≅3 minutes per input ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/897 "2023-03-26T13:44:24Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Russia spent decades voicing their national security concerns regarding the encroachment of a military coalition of countries specifically created in opposition to Russia/USSR from growing ever closer. The Soviet Union spent decades swallowing up its neighbors, installing puppet regimes and threatening Western countries. No NATO country ever invaded Soviet-claimed territory or posed a threat to do so. Speaking of Germany, Kedikat’s claims of “encroachment” are reminiscent of Kaiser Wilhelm II’s stooges bellowing about “encirclement” before WWI, when the countries they threatened created alliances for self-defense. You are _nekulturny_, comrade. ---
**Author:** ![JoePockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@JoePockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoePockets)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/898 "2023-03-26T14:38:06Z")
What I don’t understand is how does someone who was unemployed twice in the 1990s become president of Russia in less than four years, and then by 2014 is in the leaders of Forbes magazine list of the World’s Most Powerful People. It would connect easier if he was born and feed with a gold spoon from birth like …let’s say Donald Trump then I could get it. In Putins case luck & timing has propelled his boat. Yet with all the wealth around Putin and his associates the average Russians health program is horrible, Russian women die of cardiovascular disease at a rate five times greater than women in Europe. The life expectancy of a 15-year-old male in Russia is three years less than that of a male his age in Haiti. During Putins time line of running the world’s largest gas station that had seen a tenfold increase in the price of oil between 1999 and 2014 one would think the folks in Russia would have it made and in par with other countries like the oil nations in the Arab league? …Not! How does he maintain his position as leader let alone living & breathing on the green side of Russian grass ? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/899 "2023-03-26T15:34:31Z")
> [@JoePockets](#): > > How does he maintain his position as leader let alone living & breathing on the green side of Russian grass ? By running the lying propaganda machine effectively. All Russians know is that they are doing better than anyone else, and the evil Western nations are planning to attack them soon. See North Korea for another example. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/900 "2023-03-26T16:11:12Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The Ukraine military was on the verge of fully invading the two Donbass breakaway areas. Those areas are Ukrainian territory. They are entitled to enter them as they see fit, even if Russian troops - and that’s what they were - intended to oppose them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=46)