# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/901 "2023-03-26T16:12:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no actual evidence that anything close to the majority of the Donetsk region wants to separate from Ukraine, and plenty of evidence that the majority wants to remain in Ukraine. Well, the Russians are deporting or killing those who oppose them and giving the houses and property to Russians, so eventually they’ll get there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/902 "2023-03-26T16:39:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Soviet Union spent decades swallowing up its neighbors, installing puppet regimes and threatening Western countries. No NATO country ever invaded Soviet-claimed territory or posed a threat to do so. “We had to invade, because they were trying to stop us from invading!” ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/903 "2023-03-26T19:08:16Z")
> **[Ukraine is burning through ammunition faster than the US and NATO can produce...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/us-weapons-factories-ukraine-ammunition/index.html)** > > Inside a sprawling factory just off the President Biden Expressway in downtown Scranton, Pennsylvania, the future arsenal of Ukraine's war effort is being forged, one red hot artillery shell at a time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/904 "2023-03-26T19:18:52Z")
Wait, you mean there’s a war going on, and combatants are firing off ammunition at a faster rate than it can be manufactured? Stop the presses! Alert the media! Guns can fire bullets faster than they can be manufactured! ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/905 "2023-03-26T19:21:40Z")
The plant does however have very modern sections as well. Material handling systems in other parts look like they could quickly scale up rates. It may be just some of the core heavy equipment that is pretty old. Adding new core equipment may be a reasonably quick way to increase throughput. Just a guess from the available pictures. It is of course not the only munition facility. Maybe others would be a better fit to add the equipment required. I am sure if the will and money is there, the production can increase dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/906 "2023-03-26T19:48:06Z")
At least Ukrainian ammo works. > **[Russian troops given unusable shells as ammunition shortage hits](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-troops-soldiers-given-unusuable-shells-ammunition-shortage-ukraine-1783612)** > > The U.K. MoD previously said Russia will be able to make the advances it wants with dwindling resources. And: “Russia’s ammunition shortages “have likely worsened to the extent that extremely punitive shell-rationing is in force on many parts of the front,” the British defense ministry said in its latest intelligence update.” Not to worry, comrade Kedikat. Brave Russian cannon fodder will fight with shovels! > **[Russian soldiers told to fight with ‘shovels’](https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/lack-of-ammunition-leads-russian-soldiers-to-fight-with-shovels-uk-intelligence/news-story/5c285cdcb57342b94d19f46edef29dbf)** > > Russian soldiers are being ordered to use shovels in “brutal, low-tech” combat as the country struggles with a shortage of ammunition in its war against Ukraine. There’s no sacrifice too great for the _Rodina_! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/907 "2023-03-26T20:37:59Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The plant does however have very modern sections as well. You know, it’s not at all helpful to keep blathering on how Ukraine is facing critical ammo shortages alternating between your not-particularly-well-informed speculation and repeating Kremlin disinformation. You’ve had Perun’s excellent and very well-researched video on the topic linked for you. The guy pretty clearly works somewhere in Australian military procurement (no idea as to whether on the govt side or the vender side) and he displays a very high degree of understanding of how western military procurement systems work. The tl;dr of that video is that the Ukrainian artillery ammo situation is difficult but probably manageable, and the Russian artillery ammo situation is also extremely difficult though it’s hard to say exactly to what degree due to limited info. Your thoughts on how the Scranton plant might be able to increase production based on viewing a few pictures of the assembly line are, shall we say, not particularly valuable by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/908 "2023-03-26T20:51:12Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Your thoughts on how the Scranton plant might be able to increase production based on viewing a few pictures of the assembly line are, shall we say, not particularly valuable by comparison. Dunning-Kruger, moron or volunteer Komrade For Putin. Hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/909 "2023-03-26T22:20:52Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > You’ve had Perun’s excellent and very well-researched video on the topic linked for you. The guy pretty clearly works somewhere in Australian military procurement (no idea as to whether on the govt side or the vender side) and he displays a very high degree of understanding of how western military procurement systems work. Bit of an aside, but you never know, he might just have a fascination with the subject as a hobby and a day job of procurement in the civilian sector. Either way he really does know his shit. Before the war and his videos on the war his channel was a gaming channel where his videos might have 8,000 views, not 800,000. He’d make hour long videos with the same degree of depth and understanding as he does on his Ukraine war videos, only the topics would be things like the military/economic workings of an individual nation’s gameplay in [Dominions 5](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbCbj03gdsWzZS6DGYqs3kHo7Cjkp_FMN). I’d never heard of Perun before the war, but I’ve played Dominions 3, 4, and 5 so I watched a few of his nation guides on Dominions 5. They’re really good. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/910 "2023-03-27T00:06:56Z")
Ooh, ooh, ooh, Mister Kotter! It’s a trick question. The answer is “All three”. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/911 "2023-03-27T15:01:35Z")
Has Kedikat been right about ANYTHING in here over the past year? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/912 "2023-03-27T15:12:06Z")
Well, there’s the generic “war is bad” thing. A controversial, brave stand to take. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/913 "2023-03-28T08:31:30Z")
Well, he’s kind of hemming and hawing on that, though; isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/914 "2023-03-28T14:46:29Z")
I think it goes “war is bad so Ukraine should stop trying to resist the invasion” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/915 "2023-03-28T15:23:35Z")
If Ukraine would’ve done what Russia politely asked, none of this would’ve had to happen. Russia basically had no other choice. And of course it is really the US that forced Ukraine to not do what Russia asked so it is ultimately the US’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/916 "2023-03-28T17:11:13Z")
Komrads! What is this nonsense you are talking about? Russia did nothing wrong, you’re all victims of fake news of the collective West. Russia didn’t start the war, the West did! > **[Putin falsely claims it was West that "started the war" in Ukraine almost a...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-ukraine-war-speech-today-blames-us-nato-after-one-year-invasion/)** > > In his delayed state of the nation address, Putin cast Russia as a victim of Western aggression fighting for its very existence. > “It’s they who have started the war. And we are using force to end it,” Putin said before an audience of lawmakers, state officials and soldiers who have fought in Ukraine. > > Putin accused the West of launching “aggressive information attacks” and taking aim at Russian culture, religion and values because it is aware that “it is impossible to defeat Russia on the battlefield.” > > He also accused Western nations of waging an attack on Russia’s economy with sanctions — but declared but they hadn’t “achieved anything and will not achieve anything.” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/917 "2023-03-28T17:13:27Z")
Ukraine just needed to lay back and think about borschtball. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/918 "2023-03-28T17:23:43Z")
Yep, Ukraine might even find they enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/919 "2023-03-28T19:22:08Z")
A strong argument could be made that Ukraine has always been a part of Russia . . . not as strong as _whatever country Kedikat lives in_ has always been a part of Russia though. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/920 "2023-03-28T23:27:19Z")
Western media accurately reporting on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and war crimes they’ve committed there is defined by Putin as “aggressive information attacks”. No wonder “1984” [is so popular in Russia](https://www.cnn.com/style/article/orwell-1984-russian-bestseller-scli-intl/index.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=47)