# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/921 "2023-03-28T23:59:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > No wonder “1984” [is so popular in Russia](https://www.cnn.com/style/article/orwell-1984-russian-bestseller-scli-intl/index.html). I’m not surprised, because _1984_ was partially inspired by the 1924 novel _We_ written by Russian author Yevgeny Zamyatin. Also, the Orwell novel was inspired by the way that both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were treating their people, as the idea of it was first conceived by an Englishman in the final years of WWII. (It always amused me that in the novel, the former Great Britain had been renamed “Airstrip One”.) But yes, Orwell would very much appreciate Putin’s tactics. They are… Orwellian. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/922 "2023-03-29T00:14:08Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > A strong argument could be made that Ukraine has always been a part of Russia Well…some sort of argument anyway 😀. But definitely not between the mid-13th and late-18th centuries. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/923 "2023-03-29T05:44:38Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It always amused me that in the novel, the former Great Britain had been renamed “Airstrip One”. I figured it was because of the number of [8th AAF bases](http://www.303rdbg.com/h-england-map.html) in England during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/924 "2023-03-29T05:48:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > But yes, Orwell would very much appreciate Putin’s tactics. They are… Orwellian. I don’t think “appreciate” is the right word. George Orwell never saw himself as a disinterested observer - he was passionate in his opposition to authoritarianism. He would have _recognized_ Putin’s tactics, and despised them. _1984_ was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/925 "2023-03-29T07:20:36Z")
I believe @Atamasama was using the word [the word in the sense given in the third definition here](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/appreciate). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/926 "2023-03-29T07:22:31Z")
Yes, you appreciate my meaning. 😉 And I’m well aware that Orwell was a staunch democratic socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/927 "2023-03-29T12:30:11Z")
Russia has always been at ~~war~~ special military operation with Eurasia. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/928 "2023-03-29T16:23:16Z")
You laugh, but from Russia’s 1 year anniversary concert: > since the dawn of time… > every new century… > begins for our country with a war with the collective west! > and every time, the people… > the sacrifice of the regular people in the name of loving the motherland > has led to the victory of the Russian soldiers! -Vladimir Mashov [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BOswv8c3QVE/maxresdefault.jpg "Russia's 1 YEAR ANNIVERSARY Concert was not great") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOswv8c3QVE&t=329s) Clip of his speech in the first 10 seconds on the video, full clip of that segment of his speech at ~6:30. The whole video is worth it though, the picture of the trash dumpster full of Russian flags that had been thrown away after being waved for the cameras by people forced to attend last year’s patriotic concert is kind of telling of Russia’s actual attitude as opposed to the propaganda facade. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/929 "2023-03-29T16:51:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > _1984_ was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual. Well, that’s [the problem with any good warning…](https://grapecollective.com/articles/prohibitions-grape-bricks-how-to-not-make-wine) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/930 "2023-03-29T21:51:28Z")
The words to those songs! Bafuckingnanas. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/931 "2023-03-30T12:13:11Z")
About Nuland, there’s a thread in this forum that discusses the phone calls last 2014. And it looks like the same strategies continue elsewhere: > **[Nuland puts PH in next war after Ukraine?](https://www.manilatimes.net/2023/03/12/opinion/columns/nuland-puts-ph-in-next-war-after-ukraine/1882369)** > > IN an almost secret 'Media Note' from the Office of The Spokesperson of the US State Department, the short article below appeared:'In Manila, Under Secretary \[Victoria\] Nuland will meet with senior Philippine officials to discuss key aspects of the... ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/932 "2023-04-01T23:11:07Z")
Although the U.S. has, I think, the most powerful military force in the world, it still is best for them to try not to use it if possible. They have for many decades employed other means to get their desired outcomes. I would say on the whole they have been successful. Sometimes with mutually beneficial deals with both parties. Sometimes by darker means. Not beneficial to both parties. Of course very many countries do similar things. As the general level of prosperity, education, technical base levels of more countries has risen. Along with ever more economic inter relations of countries. It becomes more difficult to keep control on the high level. A greater number of countries are more near peer in more ways. This narrows the range of tactics that are cost beneficial to employ. Inter relations of countries causes one to be more apt to step on allies toes when confronting a particular country. Maybe even your own. I feel that there are some people in positions of power in a number of mostly Western countries, that are not taking the changed world properly into account, when planning their actions and expected results. I think it is now somewhat less projection of power, but more internal base of power. Not so much, I can hurt you, but more, you cannot hurt me. It becomes more difficult to offer a tasty enough carrot. Also to wield a big enough stick. Sometimes either costs too much. Gains too little in this new more multi polar world. Countries need to look more inward for security. Not to be isolationist. But to be self secure and self sufficient. So all the carrots can be of more specific, high value, to anyone you might offer them to. In some ways the stick approach has hastened several countries to do this. Every offence drives the creation of a defence. One must adapt. Maybe the best adaptation is devote more to defence. Mind ones own business, then offer that better business to allies. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/933 "2023-04-01T23:23:12Z")
I found this information interesting. The end of it has a list of military sales. Good details of the amounts, timelines and if the materiel was outsourced in some or all amount. One can get a rough look into some production capacity of Russian military equipment. This is just for export. So there may be slack to also produce for internal use. Or they may sacrifice internal for customer satisfaction. Russia is the second biggest exporter of military materiel. Granted a distant second to the U.S. But then Russian materiel is likely cheaper per unit. Both countries cut elaborate deals that warp the actual costs to customers. So any profit margins are impossible to know. I just found the raw numbers produced to be a bit of a peek into the production capacity of Russia. Good or bad. ATM rates seem pretty damn good? [https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46937](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46937) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/934 "2023-04-01T23:39:50Z")
More distaction from Putin’s disastrous ego-strike? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/935 "2023-04-01T23:44:14Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Although the U.S. has, I think, the most powerful military force in the world, {…} A greater number of countries are more near peer But, clearly, not Russia! ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/936 "2023-04-02T00:39:02Z")
What is wrong with you? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/937 "2023-04-02T00:42:15Z")
Was some babbling about Russian arms _exports_? > **[Russia's arms export industry is collapsing](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-arms-export-industry-collapsing-ukraine-1786912)** > > Russian military exports fell by nearly one-third over the last five years, and the long-term picture looks bleak for Moscow. > Russia’s arms export industry—historically the second most lucrative in the world after the United States—appears to be collapsing under the weight of technological shifts, international political isolation, and its disastrous war in Ukraine, according to new figures released by the world’s leading weapons industry watchdog. > > Data published by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) on Monday show that Russia’s military exports fell by 31 percent over the past five years when compared with the five years previous, threatening Moscow’s position as the world’s second most influential weapons dealer. And hey look, [Perun has a video on the topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hBbONvCN0), but I have to admit not having watched this one. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/938 "2023-04-02T03:17:17Z")
Yes those are my orders. Dumb ass. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/939 "2023-04-02T03:20:44Z")
That’s some trumpian level inanity for you to call me a dumbass, you lying ignorant shill. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/940 "2023-04-02T03:22:32Z")
Many things. Some health issues. But all but one are basically solved. That one is painful, but I can still function, work, pay the bills. Finances are pretty good though. I would like to sell the house. But it needs a lot of work. I can probably still do it myself. But as I age, it takes longer to get things done. Retirement is still a ways off. How are you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=48)