# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1001 "2023-04-09T04:15:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > They include multi-millionaire supplement mogul Joe Mercola who said “The “humanitarian aid” to Ukraine is really proxy war money to destroy Russia’s military” Maybe Kedikat is actually Mercola. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1002 "2023-04-09T05:46:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii (quoting AIER)](#): > > “When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, prospects for cooperating with the West were bright. But the economic collapse and subsequent rise of the oligarchs in Russia, along with the policies of the West that focused on incorporating many of the successor states of the Soviet Union into the EU and the NATO created an environment that led many in Russia to be skeptical about the benevolence of the unfolding new world order. It never seems to occur to these jaspers that if the West in general and the US in particular wanted to destroy Russia, it would have moved to do so a year or two after the USSR collapsed when they were at maximum disarray. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1003 "2023-04-09T06:34:38Z")
There’s that, and the fact that nobody was forcing Eastern European/former Warsaw Pact nations to join the EU and NATO, they joined because they wanted to. They wanted to join the EU because they are part of Europe, and they wanted to join NATO because it is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one, and strangely enough they had legitimate, historical fears of Russian aggression. NATO was slower and more cautious about adding these new members in than the new members wanted, some were added in 1999, the others in 2004. It’s kind of notable that the nations that have sent the largest amount of military support to Ukraine relative to the amount they are able to give are countries that Russia and the USSR have treated like doormats in the past: Poland and the Czechia, and Slovakia have all sent large parts of their available military material, and the Baltic States, who have the best argument for hanging onto what they have rather than sent it to Ukraine since they directly border Russia, have sent an even higher percentage of what they have to Ukraine. [The six of them have sent the largest percentages of their GDP in aid to Ukraine](https://cepa.org/article/mighty-baltics-lead-the-nato-pack-with-aid-to-ukraine/). > Some, led by the Baltic states, have gone much further. Indeed, Estonia has provided [six and a half times](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/) as much help as the US (1.3% of GDP compared to 0.2%), and Latvia almost five times as much when assessed by the proportion of national wealth contributed. That includes military, humanitarian, and other assistance. > > The efforts of the top six contributors by GDP — the three Baltic states, Poland, and the Czech and Slovak republics — are not the most noticed. Estonia recently announced that it was donating **all** of its howitzers to Ukraine. > **[Estonia Sending All Its 155-mm Howitzers to Ukraine](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/01/24/estonia-sending-howitzers-ukraine/)** > > Estonia will donate all its 155-millimeter howitzers to Ukraine as part of its most extensive military assistance yet. > Estonia said its decision to send all of its 155-mm howitzers not only aims to support the war-torn nation but to set an example for other countries still reluctant to help Ukraine. > > It is meant “in such a way that other countries will have no excuses left why they cannot provide Ukraine with the necessary weapons to win the war.” I wonder why Estonia of all countries feels the need to take a stand against Russian aggression, or what historical precedents made them so eager to join NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1004 "2023-04-09T08:28:41Z")
Our kooky komrade will soon be here to hand-wave it away explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1005 "2023-04-09T08:31:29Z")
Have you heard the phrase that goes something like, “If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole”? That’s Russia at the geopolitical level. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1006 "2023-04-09T16:25:21Z")
Simply wanna say your posts have been much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1007 "2023-04-09T17:22:37Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > They wanted to join the EU because they are part of Europe, and they wanted to join NATO This, a thousand times this. There’s a reason that they ran away from Russia and into the arms of Europe. And it isn’t because of 50 years of bliss inside the Soviet sphere. And when you meet a Putin apologist, I’ve found it’s one of the points for which they have little response. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1008 "2023-04-12T22:45:57Z")
South Korea comes through. Sidestepping the laws they have against supplying arms to active combat. Up to 3 months worth of artillery rounds for Ukraine. Hopefully Ukraine has a good number of 155 mm artillery pieces to use it. > **[South Korea to lend 500,000 rounds of artillery shells to US -report](https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-lend-500000-rounds-artillery-shells-us-report-2023-04-12/)** > > South Korea has reached an agreement to lend the United States 500,000 rounds of 155mm artillery shells that could give Washington greater flexibility to supply Ukraine with ammunition, a South Korean newspaper reported on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1009 "2023-04-12T22:49:36Z")
Actually. Not sure if South Korea has laws against supply. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1010 "2023-04-12T23:57:52Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Simply wanna say your posts have been much appreciated. Thanks, it’s kind of you to say so. > [@Kedikat](#): > > South Korea comes through. Sidestepping the laws they have against supplying arms to active combat. > Up to 3 months worth of artillery rounds for Ukraine. Hopefully Ukraine has a good number of 155 mm artillery pieces to use it. Not only are you entirely full of shit, as you admit in your next post that you actually have no idea if South Korea has laws against supplying arms to active combat zones (which would be really strange considering they sent [~350,000 troops to serve in the Vietnam War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_in_the_Vietnam_War) - did they not supply them with arms?); you’re doubly full of shit in that they aren’t sidestepping any theoretical laws by backfilling the US for shells it has sent to Ukraine since that’s not supplying arms to a war zone. Oh, and you’re triply full of shit because I think someone mentioned something about this three weeks ago when you were trying to determine when Ukraine was going to run out of 155mm shells based off of your painful attempt at math that was only (mis)counted production at a single US plant in Scranton. I even bolded it for you this time Komrad. > [@Dissonance](#): > > For anyone actually interested in artillery shell production, stockpiles, and consumption - the ‘actually’ in that excludes our resident Komrad, or course\* - who has an hour to kill, Perun put out another of his excellent videos on the topic two months ago. > > Outside of NATO, there is a large production base for 155mm shells around the world, particularly in East Asia in countries like Australia, South Korea, and Singapore. **South Korea hasn’t been willing to directly supply Ukraine but does backfill nations sending ammunition to Ukraine.** They also have one of the largest stockpiles of artillery shells in the world, since they have a huge artillery park to deal with North Korea’s artillery park; they expect and have prepped for the artillery duel in a potential war to be a decisive deciding factor in its outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1011 "2023-04-13T02:30:10Z")
Time for more BS from our resident 11 Ruble poster. [‘Direct ticket to Bakhmut’: Russians fear digital draft](https://us.yahoo.com/news/direct-ticket-bakhmut-russians-fear-165125869.html) > With no debate and at lightning speed, Russian parliament this week backed a bill that will allow authorities to call up men with a simple click as Moscow’s Ukraine offensive grinds on. > > The bill, rushed through both chambers of the Russian parliament, creates a digital conscription notice system that could bar men from leaving the country and make dodging the draft nearly impossible. _More at the link._ ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1012 "2023-04-13T04:22:42Z")
It isn’t a law. It is described as the government position, to not sell arms to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1013 "2023-04-13T04:27:27Z")
The Vietnam war was a little while ago. Countries here and there have changed some laws since then I think. Three weeks ago, South Korea still was not going to supply shells to Ukraine. They had them. But only now are they going to go about it in a round about way. So they can still say they are holding their governments position on not selling them directly to Ukraine. You people are weird. Even if I say good news you freak out. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1014 "2023-04-13T04:41:52Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Even if I say good news you freak out. Because this is a web site primarily about facts, fighting ignorance, not just pushing a narrative we prefer regardless of whether or not it can be verified by a reliable source. That’s where you always go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1015 "2023-04-13T08:03:46Z")
Wrong post. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1016 "2023-04-13T08:04:00Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > It isn’t a law. It is described as the government position, to not sell arms to Ukraine. > [@Kedikat](#): > > The Vietnam war was a little while ago. Countries here and there have changed some laws since then I think. Thank you captain obvious, the Vietnam War was some time ago. Countries do change laws, yet you admit to having no idea if South Korea has laws forbidding it from supplying arms to combat zones that you still think they are breaking. So is it a law or a government position? I mean you just admitted to making up this theoretical law 9 hours ago - or sorry, admitting that you have no idea “if South Korea has laws against supply [sic].” > [@Kedikat](#): > > Three weeks ago, South Korea still was not going to supply shells to Ukraine. They had them. But only now are they going to go about it in a round about way. So they can still say they are holding their governments position on not selling them directly to Ukraine. Hey dumbass, **they’re not supplying shells to Ukraine**. They are backfilling shells to countries that are supplying shells to Ukraine, which is exactly what you were told they were already doing three weeks ago. Neither their position nor their activities have changed in the past three weeks. You know those 24 FH-70 howitzers Estonia has donated to Ukraine? They’re going to be replaced in a couple of years with South Korean K9s Estonia has ordered from South Korea. Does this mean South Korea is sending howitzers to Ukraine? Poland has also just signed a huge arms deal with South Korea - the single largest arms deal South Korea has ever made - to buy and locally produce at least 182 K2 tanks, 212 K9 howitzers, 48 FA-50 light combat aircraft, and 288 K239 multiple rocket launchers. > **[First Korean tanks and howitzers arrive in Poland](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/12/06/first-korean-tanks-and-howitzers-arrive-in-poland/)** > > Poland's president and defence minister welcomed the arrival of the military equipment from South Korea. Poland has supplied Ukraine with tanks, howitzers, multiple rocket launchers and MiG-29 combat aircraft. Does this mean South Korea has broken its government’s unwillingness to directly supply arms to Ukraine and has been sending tanks, howitzers, multiple rocket launchers and combat aircraft to Ukraine? Or does it mean they are backfilling supplies of these weapons that Poland has sent to Ukraine? Or do you not know what the word backfill means? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1017 "2023-04-13T14:29:17Z")
With just a bit of photoshopping (Putin for Stalin, the “Germany” sign changed to “Ukraine”) this old Dr. Suess cartoon becomes relevant again. [![](https://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/229804/slide_229804_1041384_free.jpg) ](https://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/229804/slide_229804_1041384_free.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1018 "2023-04-13T15:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > “When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, prospects for cooperating with the West were bright. But the economic collapse and subsequent rise of the oligarchs in Russia, along with the policies of the West that focused on incorporating many of the successor states of the Soviet Union into the EU and the NATO created an environment that led many in Russia to be skeptical about the benevolence of the unfolding new world order. Ah, so cooperation with the West was sabotaged by the West trying to cooperate. ---
**Author:** ![Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cool)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1019 "2023-04-13T18:21:06Z")
It not so much about Russia, but more of the consequences of actions against Russia. a) Most European countries will struggle with getting energy after sanctioning Russia. b) Many prominent non-European countries distancing themselves on an economic scale from the US. c) This leading to a possible all out war against China-Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1020 "2023-04-13T19:42:57Z")
Better that Europe adjusts now to the unreliability of Russia as an energy source, rather than facing worse consequences later on. History shows that not acting to impede a rogue nation’s imperialist ambitions makes a wider war _more_ likely. In another blow to Russia’s creaky military, Polish MiG-29s are on their way to Ukraine. > **[Germany approves Poland's request to send jets to Ukraine](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-approves-polands-request-send-jets-ukraine-98559748)** > > Germany has approved Warsaw’s request for Poland to transfer five Soviet-designed fighter jets to Ukraine [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=52)