# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1161 "2023-06-24T21:04:00Z")
The Russian Army is now the second best army in Russia! ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1162 "2023-06-24T21:04:17Z")
Oh. Looks like it is off now. Wagner turning round and going back to regular business. Lukashenko talked to them? Wonder what the deal is? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1163 "2023-06-24T21:05:41Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Oh. Looks like it is off now. Wagner turning round and going back to regular business. Nothing is off. Putin or Prigozhin or both will be dead soon. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1164 "2023-06-24T21:08:23Z")
> **[Live updates: Wagner head says group standing down after claims of deal](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-24-23/index.html)** > > Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin claimed Saturday that he was turning his forces around from a march toward Moscow in what Russian President Putin called an "armed uprising." Follow for live updates. Everyone involved, the Russian government and Wagner both, have publicly spun around so many times they must be dizzy enough to vomit. But I guess all is well now, Russia has shown how strong and organized and cohesive it is! ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1165 "2023-06-24T21:14:08Z")
That may well be true. I suspect Prigozhin the more likely corpse. But they may not want it to be too soon. Too obvious. I think it more likely that Prigozhin has outlived his usefulness as the figurehead for Wagner. If he is smart he may retire willingly from the position. If the Wagners do indeed sign the contract to be legal entities of the Russian military, then Prigozhin will be moot in any case. Maybe the agreement lets them out of signing that contract? But Prigozhin seems to be dead in the water in any case. He tainted himself too much with this stunt. Russian public opinion is bad for him now. Also the Wagners are burnt by this as a whole. I think change in command will be needed to clean up their image now. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1166 "2023-06-24T21:16:33Z")
What took you so long? Kept poor Euphonius in suspense! šŸ˜„ ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1167 "2023-06-24T21:20:00Z")
Have to agree with that last sarcastic sentence. This will cause a lot of second guessing with some governments about any allegiance or neutrality with the Russian side of this. I am still really curious how deep this went with possible Western ties. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1168 "2023-06-24T21:22:19Z")
I think you down far too much commentary off the bottom of your shoe. I try not to reply rudely to folks. But now and thenā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1169 "2023-06-24T21:27:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Instead, you seem to be _defending_ the US lack of a civilized stance on dealing indiscriminate death in the form of munitions that still kill dozens of people every year - in areas where their conflicts stopped up to 50 years ago. No, you are straw manning this position on me. Iā€™ve provided information about the status of Ukraineā€™s request to be provided with DPICM by the US, the size of the remaining US stockpile which Perun had touched on in his video about the supplies of artillery ammunition many months ago, and noted my discovery that Turkey has in fact been providing Ukraine with DPICM on the sly since late last year. I havenā€™t stated **anything** regarding my feelings about supplying such ammunition, your dissection of selected sentences from my post throwing ridiculous strawmen at me notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1170 "2023-06-24T21:31:28Z")
So Wagner did it all with no support from the massive Russian military forces? Well then that must just show how pathetic the Ukraine forces are. But they are not! They are putting up an amazing fight. Suffering greatly but still battling on. You insult Ukraine forces if you say Wagner is so great all on its own. Wagner serves specific purposes. So far, at arms length from legal connection to Russian official purposes. They are a small but effective part of the Russian military operations. Ukraine forces could destroy a stand alone Wagner army. Wagner has always been an additional force, not main force. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1171 "2023-06-24T21:33:57Z")
Read a freaking news site to find out what the deal is. Or are you waiting for the official Kremlin talking points? ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1172 "2023-06-24T21:34:57Z")
Link the sites ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1173 "2023-06-24T21:36:55Z")
Try the SDMB breaking news on Russia thread. You mook. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1174 "2023-06-24T21:37:44Z")
In case anyone reading this thread would like an informed opinion on the situation in Ukraine and Russia. I refer you to two solid easy-to-digest YouTube Cites: [Anders Puck Nielson](https://www.youtube.com/@anderspuck) [Reporting from Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/@RFU) ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1175 "2023-06-24T21:38:00Z")
So they are going to sign the contract. Good. That cleans them up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1176 "2023-06-24T21:41:13Z")
And it seems Prigozhin will be retiring to Belarus. Better than dead. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1177 "2023-06-24T21:43:16Z")
As far as my timingā€¦ I do have a life. Things to do. I do not criticize folks for their timing on things. Except the one joking one above. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1178 "2023-06-24T21:43:44Z")
It takes time to get to the liquor store and back at leastā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1179 "2023-06-24T21:45:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Dissonance](#): > > > > The US has not signed it but has chosen to abide by and hasnā€™t used cluster munitions since 2004. > > Itā€™s nice that they havenā€™t used them, but it would be better if they joined most of the world and signed it. I donā€™t disagree. I think the US should have signed Ottawa as well. > [@Atamasama](#): > > Because the thing is, they only agreed to hold off on using them until they figured out a way to make them safer. But theyā€™ve been unable to do so, and the Pentagon decided to ā€œallow commanders to authorize the use of the weapons when they deem it necessaryā€. The funny thing is the US position on both cluster munitions and anti-personnel mines has been that US munitions are ā€˜saferā€™ because they are designed to self-destruct after a specified period of time elapses. This was the position of the US with regards to AP land mines during Ottawa and why the US wouldnā€™t sign it, and I pointed out the large number of duds from DPICM used in Desert Storm in 1991 and [US GOA studies on them](http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat5/149647.pdf) as the problem with that position. If a munition duds, it isnā€™t going to self-destruct like it is supposed to, and just because it was a dud does not mean that it is remotely safe. Add to that the problem inherent in the very name of the artillery system used to deploy mines, FASCAM, Family of Scatterable Mines. One couldnā€™t claim to be abiding by _existing_ laws and customs on the use of land mines pre-Ottawa which required the location and positions of landmines to be recorded to aid in their future removal if they were delivered by scattering them, built in self-destruct timer or not. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/1180 "2023-06-24T21:50:04Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > It takes time to get to the liquor store and back at leastā€¦ So, you post drunk? Never would have guessed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=60)