In defense of spoilers

Cafe Society
81

Which, of course, is itself a kind of spoiler. Which of course makes it particularly hard to even discuss the spoilers on a meta level, when revealing that (name) contains spoilers itself already somewhat spoils it. (Although of course “has spoilers” and “has a massive twist” are not quite the same thing.)

Certainly, I think getting out of the theater after seeing The Sixth Sense and immediately tweeting “The Sixth Sense was amazing! What a twist! I never saw it coming!” would be a dick move.

I saw both The Sixth Sense and The Good Place without even a hint that there was a twist coming, much less what it was, and both reveals were absolutely stunning.

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…so this is interesting.

I had given up on one of these two shows because, to be quite frank, I got tired of the main-characters bullshit. That isn’t to say the show isn’t utterly brilliant. Great writing, great acting, great production values. It’s just I had personally had enough.

So I didn’t mind peeking at the spoiler here. And now I’m both simultaneously annoyed (with myself, not DG) for reading it…and was probably the only thing that would ever convince me to watch the final season of the show.

Because that spoiler is something I certainly didn’t expect.

ETA: my apologies: for some reason when I quoted this message, the spoiler tag disappeared for one of these shows. I edited a couple of minutes later…but I’m sorry if I spoiled anyone for the two minutes it was displayed :frowning:

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Another example that came to mind when I came up with the two examples I used above was the last few seconds of episode 6x21 of Buffy. It was a delightful, jaw-dropping surprise that I would have been pissed to have spoiled

84

I’m mostly indifferent towards spoilers. I don’t watch many tv shows as they’re airing, but I love adding things to my queue after reading reviews. I also listen to a few podcasts that cover movies and shows, and I’ll frequently start something that has already been spoiled because it sounds interesting.

Offering unsolicited spoilers is straight up jerk behavior but self-spoiled material is still enjoyable. Audiences are frequently familiar with the source material before watching content and it’s still enjoyable if the material is well adapted.

Game of Thrones S1 didn’t feel like it came out of nowhere to me but when I went back and read the first book, I finally had a better understanding of why people were so surprised by it. The S3 twist absolutely floored me though. Definitely didn’t see that coming. I self-spoiled for the rest of GOT after I did a pretty deep dive in their wiki and indulged in several podcasts that were designed with book readers in mind.

@MaxTheVool is onto something with the tiers. Whodunnits are at the top of my list for spoilers that affect my engagement with the material. So much of the story is dependent on the big reveal that it can significantly diminish my enjoyment. Horror movie reveals are a close second for me but I feel like some of those could be considered mystery/whodunnits.

The Good Place would’ve been a very different viewing experience if I knew the reveal ahead of time, but I disagree with people who insist that it doesn’t hold up on rewatch. I’ve rewatched a few times and it’s been an absolute pleasure each time.

I’ve noticed that other posters have given several examples where the spoiler was common knowledge by the time I got around to watching the movie and I still enjoyed myself. As @Briny_Deep mentioned, there is definitely a statute of limitations. I was born in ‘84 so most movies that came out before ‘95 were pre-spoiled for me and I didn’t really have an issue with it.

Citizen Kane, Empire Strikes Back, and The Usual Suspects were all spoiled for me before my first viewing. Admittedly, the way The Usual Suspects was spoiled wasn’t super clear to me so it didn’t really click until the reveal anyway.

Citizen Kane’s spoiler didn’t ruin anything for me. I was preoccupied with the journey and the style and techniques that were being used to tell the story.

For Empire Strikes Back I was focused on how the characters responded to the reveal and it blew me away as a kid. It almost felt like reading a story where you know something the main character doesn’t and you’re just building towards that reveal to see how the protagonist reacts.

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I mean, sort of? Obviously it’s reasonable to be more casual about spoilers for most of the movies being discussed in this thread than something that’s been in theaters for a week.

That said, there are still always people who haven’t seen things yet. There’s no general reason NOT to put things in spoiler boxes, or quickly say to a group of people you’re talking to “you’ve all seen The Usual Suspects?” or what have you.

20 years from now, The Good Place will be 25+ years old. Doesn’t mean everyone will have seen it, or heard about it. And doesn’t mean that it won’t still be more enjoyable to go in “blind”.

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That moment is one of my favorites.

When I was a kid, my mom thought Star Wars was too violent and didn’t let me watch the movies until Return of the Jedi came out. Being an elementary school boy in those years, you bet those movies were spoiled for me.

But when my own daughter was old enough to watch them, I sat by her and watched her face during that scene; and when Vader said his line, she turned to me, eyes and mouth all perfect little O’s. It was the purest experience possible of what a good twist can do in fiction, and I experienced it vicariously.

She would have missed that moment if I’d told her in advance.

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I was thinking more about expectations to be unspoiled as opposed to people being jerks about spoilers. For example, it seems a bit extreme to expect to walk into the 80+ year old Citizen Kane unspoiled when it’s already been spoiled by countless cartoons, comics, movies, tv shows, etc. That doesn’t mean that it’s okay to spoil it in casual conversation unprompted. This thread is a pretty good example of that. Everyone here is doing a great job of discussing media without dropping spoilers all over the place. Everyone can follow the conversation, but it’s very unlikely that a first-timer would have their experience ruined by this thread.

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I know my own mind. I know I hate surprises. I know that I hate feeling tricked. I know that twist endings mostly feel like a cheap writing tactic.

All of these combine to make me love being spoiled. I actively seek out spoilers for things I watch. I read the ends of books first. I flip through comic books.

These are all true things and quite frankly, your disbelief is like water off a duck’s back to me.

89

Can you give an example of a show/movie where a twist came along and you found it actively unpleasant because you were “tricked”?

I mean, there’s a difference between “I hate twists” and “I hate cheap/shallow twists”… and I agree that twists can be cheap and unearned.

In particular, did you see any of the the following three fully unspoiled?
-The Sixth Sense
-The Usual Suspects
-The Good Place (S1)

90

No, yes, and no.

And I hated The Usual Suspects for its stupid twist. And I love The Good Place.

91

Could someone please spoil The Good Place for me? Insidespoilers blurs of course.

I’ve heard good things about it, but I’m halfway through Season One, and I don’t much like it so far. In fact, I’ve got Season One in my “Return to Library” pile now because I find it tedious. I’ve been watching the last few episodes in hope of getting to the Big Reveal I’ve been told is coming at the end of Season One and I can’t take more of the tedious Mysterious Sinkhole and other ludicrous plot devices that clutter up the narrative.

I’m not a fan of SciFi generally, so my problem may be inherent to the genre; though The Good Place barely belongs to that genre, its premise is certainly fantastical, and I may not appreciate the Big Reveal whatever it is. But you can post a summary of it in the next few days, I might want to endure a few more episodes to get to it. Otherwise, it goes back to the library and I never get to know what I missed.

92

Sure.

At the end of Season 1, they discover that they are not, in fact, in the Good Place; they are in the Bad Place.

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Here’s a clip from the last part of the season 1 finale. (It cuts off before the very end.)

Summary

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVG1YGdoCWo

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To amplify,

If you’ve already met Shawn, the all-knowing judge, it turns out he’s actually Michael’s boss and had reluctantly green-lighted the project, thinking it would never work.

Season 2 is Michael trying variants of his plan after erasing their memories only to be figured out by the group each time, once even by Jason. After over 800 times, when he had only gotten permission to try once, he comes over to their side and tries to figure out a way to get them into the real Good Place, himself included. After finding out no one has made it into the Good Place in over 500 years, he figures the Bad Place demons are cheating and arranges a meeting with Gen, the real judge of the universe (Maya Rudolph).

I can go on with seasons 3 and 4, but if it isn’t your cuppa, @slicedalone it’s a long journey to a conclusion you won’t care about.

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About The Good Place—and this is not a spoiler: it’s not your typical sitcom where, once the setting and the premise of the show are established, each episode tells its own story within that setting, making use of that premise. Rather, the whole series is one long story, and the individual episodes are explicitly labeled as “chapters” of that story.

And often, the writers take the show in a direction you didn’t expect; they don’t spend too long following the same pattern or formula. So, for maximum enjoyment, it’s really best if you go in knowing as little as possible. The show is rewatchable (IMHO), but the re-watch is a substantially different experience when you know ahead of time all the twists and turns and reveals.

The show may not be your cup of tea—no show is everyone’s cup of tea—but IMHO it rewards trusting the show and letting it take you where it wants to.

96

There are few things I like better than being fooled by a good honest twist. I watch a ton of mysteries and read a shitload of mystery novels, so I’m fully loaded with all the different plots and techniques. It’s rare that I’m completely fooled, and if it’s fair, I love it! It’s the fun of a mystery.

But if they cheat (leave out major plot points etc) then I feel cheated. But, normally? No, I enjoy them. I like puzzles!