# In English, does “if it were” come across as more unlikely and hypothetical than “if it was”?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 2, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109 "2015-05-02T17:28:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Melia\_Antiqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melia_Antiqua)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/1 "2015-05-02T17:28:21Z")
“If it \*\*was \*\*just his table etiquette that wasn’t up to scratch, it wouldn’t matter. But it goes a lot deeper than that…”
“If it \*\*were \*\*just his table etiquette that wasn’t up to scratch, it wouldn’t matter. But it goes a lot deeper than that…”
I wonder if “ **if it were** ” suggests that it is **highly unlikely** that his table etiquette is the only thing that isn’t up to scratch. How does “ **if it was** ” compare with “ **if it were** ”?
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/2 "2015-05-02T17:51:05Z")
In this case, formal English would require “were,” the past subjunctive of the verb “to be.” The subjunctive is used to indicate circumstances that are contrary to fact, shown by the first clause starting with “If…”
In the first sentence, “was” is the past indicative, and would be incorrect given the apparent meaning of the sentence. (However, the subjunctive is falling out of use in current English, and you will find many people using the indicative in its place.)
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/3 "2015-05-02T17:54:07Z")
“Were” is correct here, but many people would say “was” in conversation.
This is an example of the subjunctive mood. The subjunctive mood is used to indicate hypothetical or contrafactual situations:
\*
"If I \*\*were \*_alone, I would be scared!"_
“Were” is used because I’m describing a hypothetical. If I actually was alone I’d use “was” instead:
\*"I \*\*was \*_alone, and I was scared!"_
In casual usage, however, many people disregard the subjunctive.
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### Author:  [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/4 "2015-05-02T18:24:19Z")
In the register of English that makes the distinction, there is a difference in meaning between “if it was” and “if it were”.
Where this distinction applies, it operates as follows:
“if it was…” is past tense, and refers to a condition that may have been true or false.
“if it were…” is present tense, and refers to a condition that is false.
Example: “If it was raining last night, the roads will be wet this morning”; “If it were raining now, I would need an umbrella.”
In the first example, it might have been raining (we don’t know). In the second example, it’s not raining (but if it were…)
In _Fiddler on the Roof_, Tevye sings “If I were a rich man”. (He’s not rich.)
As pointed out by others, it is perfectly normal for most speakers in most contexts to neglect this distinction and use “if I was” in both meanings.
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### Author:  [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/5 "2015-05-02T21:35:36Z")
The way I learned subjunctive, it refers to an event that is highly unlikely or hypothetical (but not guaranteed untrue - just very unlikely).
_“If I were a rich man,
Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum.
All day long I’d biddy biddy bum.
If I were a wealthy man.
I wouldn’t have to work hard.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If I were a biddy biddy rich,
Idle-diddle-daidle-daidle man.”_
It’s not impossible that Tevye gets to be rich, but it is at the extreme of likelihood.
Another classic example in English is “If I were you, I’d \”
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/6 "2015-05-02T23:31:18Z")
> [@hibernicus](#):
>
> In the register of English that makes the distinction, there is a difference in meaning between “if it was” and “if it were”.
>
> Where this distinction applies, it operates as follows:
> “if it was…” is past tense, and refers to a condition that may have been true or false.
> “if it were…” is present tense, and refers to a condition that is false.
Hibernicus is correct. So in the OP’s examples:
> [@](#):
>
> “If it was just his table etiquette that wasn’t up to scratch, it wouldn’t matter. But it goes a lot deeper than that…”
You are posing a possibility based on a condition whose truth you are unsure of.
We don’t know whether his table etiquette was up to scratch. It’s possible that it was. It’s possible that it wasn’t.
> [@](#):
>
> “If it were just his table etiquette that wasn’t up to scratch, it wouldn’t matter. But it goes a lot deeper than that…”
You are posing a possibility based on a condition you know to be _false_.
We know that his table etiquette **was** up to scratch. However, if it had not been up to scratch …
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### Author:  [@MsKaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsKaren)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/7 "2015-05-03T03:51:20Z")
"If I were the king of the world
Tell you what I’d do
I’d throw away the cars and the bars and the war
Make sweet love to you
Sing it now… " from Joy to the World by Hoyt Axton.
Far as I know the only correct use of subjunctive case in all of rock and roll.
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-english-does-if-it-were-come-across-as-more-unlikely-and-hypothetical-than-if-it-was/719109/8 "2015-05-04T00:59:00Z")
> [@hibernicus](#):
>
> In the register of English that makes the distinction, there is a difference in meaning between “if it was” and “if it were”.
>
> Where this distinction applies, it operates as follows:
> “if it was…” is past tense, and refers to a condition that may have been true or false.
> “if it were…” is present tense, and refers to a condition that is false.
>
> Example: “If it was raining last night, the roads will be wet this morning”; “If it were raining now, I would need an umbrella.”
>
> In the first example, it might have been raining (we don’t know). In the second example, it’s not raining (but if it were…)
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Hibernicus is correct. So in the OP’s examples:
>
> You are posing a possibility based on a condition whose truth you are unsure of.
>
> We don’t know whether his table etiquette was up to scratch. It’s possible that it was. It’s possible that it wasn’t.
As Hibernicus points out, the “if it was . . .” formation refers to a past event or circumstance, which has already occured, and which therefore either was or was not.
But if we are talking about a continuous event or circumstance, e.g. the state of the table manners of somebody whose table manners are still a current concern, the past tense is not appropriate. I would say “if it were just his table etiquette that wasn’t up to scratch . . .”