# In Excelsis Deo: How to pronounce it and what does it mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183 "2003-12-20T16:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/61 "2010-12-18T14:42:44Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > een ek shell cease day o Paraphrased, “Do not sing that freakin’ Banana Boat Song while working with my spreadsheets!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/62 "2010-12-18T20:23:22Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > There are a lot more than five vowel sounds in singing. \*\*There is absolutely no reason to teach singers that they can’t sing \*\*\*. It may be easier to blend in a choir, but that’s no excuse for only using those five. That should be a capital “I” in those brackets. I think VB is thinking it’s an italics tag. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/63 "2010-12-18T21:59:38Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > That should be a capital “I” in those brackets. I think VB is thinking it’s an italics tag. Strangely, even wrapping “noparse” tags around it doesn’t help. Ah well, guess you just have to give up on putting a capital I inside square brackets. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/64 "2010-12-19T02:03:19Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > EEN would have nothing to do with Latin and everything to do with voice production, I should think. 'Least, my singing teacher taught me there were just five vowel sounds: ah, eh, ee, oh, oo. “I” as in “in” doesn’t fit any of these exactly, but has to be substituted by the nearest-approximation vowel from that list, and “ee” is the closest. Wow. I know about choral vowel modification, but I’ve never heard of a set that was that restrictive. Usually there are eight vowels: ah, ay, eh, ih, ee, oh, ooh[sup]1[/sup], uu[sup]2[/sup]. (I’m not including the “French” or umlaut vowels, of course.) All of them are modified for singing purposes. [sup]1[/sup] oo as in book [sup]2[/sup] u as in rude If I were able to use IPA and be understood, I wouldn’t need footnotes. [ɒ] [e] [ɛ] [ɪ] \* [o] [ʊ] ---
**Author:** ![ladysorrowfree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@ladysorrowfree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladysorrowfree)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/65 "2010-12-19T03:30:34Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Many choir directors bend the Latin a bit, for the sake of euphony (good sound.) Twenty voices singing an “x” sound in unison comes out rather harsh, so they’re coached to sing “eggshell” instead of the proper Latin. > > So, forgive them, scholars. They only want to sound good. Yup. I’ve sung in a lot of choirs over the years, and in every one, come Christmas, we were told to make it “eggshell-sees”. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/66 "2010-12-19T06:06:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Wow. I know about choral vowel modification, but I’ve never heard of a set that was that restrictive. Usually there are eight vowels: ah, ay, eh, ih, ee, oh, ooh[sup]1[/sup], uu[sup]2[/sup]. (I’m not including the “French” or umlaut vowels, of course.) All of them are modified for singing purposes. > > [sup]1[/sup] oo as in book > [sup]2[/sup] u as in rude > > If I were able to use IPA and be understood, I wouldn’t need footnotes. [ɒ] [e] [ɛ] [ɪ] \* [o] [ʊ] At the very least, I would add [a], [æ] and [ʌ]. And, of course, the schwa ([ə]) which can take on all sorts of variations depending upon language and context. You also really need [ɔ] if you’re going to properly pronounce anything in French or German. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/67 "2010-12-19T19:59:06Z")
In ex-celcius day-ohhh It translates to “The day after the world went back to Fahrenheit”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/68 "2010-12-20T14:48:45Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > At the very least, I would add [a], [æ] and . And, of course, the schwa () which can take on all sorts of variations depending upon language and context. You also really need [ɔ] if you’re going to properly pronounce anything in French or German. I did leave out /æ/ which is opened up and brought further back, so I’m not sure of the correct symbol. But the rest of those vowels were intentionally omitted. I was specifically told there is no “uh”, which removes [ʌ] and [ə]. The context where [a] would be still used is for /aɪ/ and /aʊ/, but, in both of those, [a] is to be avoided for being “nasty.” [ɔ] is the odd one–it exists, but only as a modification of [ɒ] in the upper registers, where the rest of the vowels are merely made more close. I’m not sure why [ɔ] does not exist before [r], but I’ve been told that the vowels in cord and code are the same. ([r] is always treated as a consonant, not a vowel.) I do want to point out that, even after being taught the standard, modifications were allowed to be made for languages other than English–but only in the choirs advanced enough to be singing in those languages anyways. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/69 "2010-12-20T22:00:20Z")
It will help to frame the discussion a bit more if we clarify whether we’re discussing choral diction or solo diction; since **Malacandra** ’s teacher was specifically teaching soloists, that’s the context of my discussion. I should preface that this is one of those subjects where you’re not going to get much agreement from person to person. Get 10 voice teachers in a room and there’ll be about 17 opinions on technique. > [@BigT](#): > > I did leave out /æ/ which is opened up and brought further back, so I’m not sure of the correct symbol. But the rest of those vowels were intentionally omitted. > > I was specifically told there is no “uh”, which removes [ʌ] and [ə]. The context where [a] would be still used is for /aɪ/ and /aʊ/, but, in both of those, [a] is to be avoided for being “nasty.” I would tend to say that while [ʌ] is modified slightly away from the dull “pure” sound, it still maintains a certain neutrality that I would still classify as [ʌ]. I can’t agree on the schwa. Like I said, schwas tend to be colored based on their particular context (schwa is more a concept than an exact vowel anyway\*), but you cannot sing expressively and authentically in English without using the schwa. Consider what you would do with the word “little” with the second syllable elongated; what vowel would you suggest using there? As for [a], I disagree quite emphatically, particularly in the case of Italian, French, and German. You simply can’t sing authentically in any of those languages without using [a] (that’s not to say that people _don’t_ (and some very high level singers, too), but it grates on me when they do). There’s no reason for [a] to be “nasty” unless it’s spread, which is a deficiency of technique, not an aspect of the vowel. > [@](#): > > [ɔ] is the odd one–it exists, but only as a modification of [ɒ] in the upper registers, where the rest of the vowels are merely made more close. I’m not sure why [ɔ] does not exist before [r], but I’ve been told that the vowels in cord and code are the same. ([r] is always treated as a consonant, not a vowel.) Again, I disagree strongly (also on modifying vowels on the top, but that’s one of those voice teacher things that no one is going to agree on). [ɔ] features quite prominently in several languages. You can get away with not using it in Italian (although you’re Italian will suffer for it), but you really need it for French and German. You can’t make a distinction between “Wonn’” and “wohn” without using [ɔ]. (Lest you suggest using [ɒ] in “Wonn’”, I would ask what you would use for “wann”.) And I would absolutely not use the same vowel for “code” and “cord”. \*To be clear, I’m referring specifically to the sound called “schwa” which is not necessarily the same thing as the “mid central vowel” although they use the same symbol. ---
**Author:** ![sweets29](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sweets29](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweets29)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/70 "2013-12-04T02:32:09Z")
[glawr-ee-uh in ek-sel-sis dey-oh, glohr-] ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/71 "2013-12-04T05:44:18Z")
WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/72 "2013-12-04T10:46:15Z")
It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas…zooombies eeeverywheeeeeeere… ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/73 "2013-12-04T12:46:23Z")
> [@altor](#): > > In several guides to church Latin pronunciation, I have seen the recommendation that the combo **xc** be pronounced **ksh** as in boo **ksh** elf. > > Thus it would be: **gloria in ek-shelsis day-o** > > But I’ve never actually heard this pronunciation, only **eks-chelsis** as **Polycarp** indicates. In my Latin class years ago, we said Glo ree a een excell sis Day Oh ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/74 "2013-12-04T13:48:42Z")
If only you had been a little quicker off the mark ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/75 "2013-12-04T14:43:57Z")
Even zombies say it _gloriah in exchellsis day-o_. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/76 "2013-12-04T16:07:48Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > First, how do you pronounce it? I’ve heard > [ul] > [li]In Eggs-shell-sis[/li][li]In Eggs-sell-sis[/li][li]In Eggs-sell-shis[/li][/ul] Those are all bloody awful :mad: The proper pronunciation is Ecks-chail-cease An armada of annoying choir directors have continuously asserted that you can (and therefore should) get away with “eggshell-cease”, their reasoning being that the “ksch” sound you have to make between 1st and 2nd syllables is just too complex a consonant when you’re singing and has too many fricatives and sibilants so the choir will sound like a punctured innertube. What makes them wrong is that no, it does _not_ sound pretty much the same. You can _tell_ that the damn choir is singing about freaking eggshells. It’s sloppy singing. Oh, and “sis” is just wrong for no reason. It’s cease, as in “cease and desist”, rhymes with piece and lease. And the middle vowel should be closer to the vowel in hail or pail than to hell or tell: chail, not chell. > [@](#): > > It looks like Latin, maybe something along the lines of “in highest praise to God.” Ya think? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/77 "2013-12-04T16:13:52Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas…zooombies eeeverywheeeeeeere… I totally read this as “z_ **OOOOOOOOO** _mbies everywhere” and LOLd. Man, this thread has been revived quite a few times. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/78 "2013-12-04T16:14:51Z")
ZoooOooooOooooOoooooOoooooo-mBees. in X-L-seas-dehhh-O. Merry Christmas! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/79 "2013-12-04T19:59:26Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > In my Latin class years ago, we said Glo ree a een excell sis Day Oh Our Latin teacher could read , write and teach 11 languages and she didn’t say chelsis no chell with an h sound! ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183/80 "2013-12-04T20:36:24Z")
Well then she could not read write or teach medieval Latin apparently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-excelsis-deo-how-to-pronounce-it-and-what-does-it-mean/220183.md?page=5)