# In fiction, how much does it typically cost to produce an average space-faring warship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423 "2011-06-30T20:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/61 "2011-07-05T00:03:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Really it’s just lack of imagination wrt Star Trek and their transporter/replicator/holodeck technology. Here is a civilization that can create nearly any object or simulate naerly any environment out of thin air and what do they use it for? Kitchen appliances and an on board glorified Dave & Busters amusement center. I don’t think it’s a lack of imagination so much as a lack of follow through. They’ll throw something in to serve one plot and then, poof, everyone suffers amnesia in the next episode even though last week’s cobbled-together gadget can solve this week’s problem. Perfect point - How many times have we seen “But we can’t blah blah blah because their shields are up and you can’t transport through shields!”. There’s an episode where a bunch of (relative) primitive revolutionaries are using some armbands that allow them to teleport through shields - it just causes long-term genetic damage. Long term genetic damage? So the fuck what? That Romulan cruiser is going to kill me and all my comrades **NOW** and you’re telling me I should be worried that after hundreds of uses it will cause me some unspecified genetic damage in the future? Oh noes! I could teleport to their reactor room and throw some thermal detonator-equivalents. But, no, instead of using a technology that functioned perfectly well last week I’m going to hope that Data pulls a subroutine out of his ass in the nick of time. Again. But, no, the episode ends and those things have suddenly ceased to exist. Maybe we should have saved a couple of them for emergencies in the future? Naaaah. Why would we ever need to beam through some shields? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/62 "2011-07-05T00:49:36Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > There’s an episode where a bunch of (relative) primitive revolutionaries are using some armbands that allow them to teleport through shields - it just causes long-term genetic damage. Long term genetic damage? So the fuck what? Then there’s the episodes where they use their transporters to repair genetic damage, so again, ‘so the fuck what?’ We really cannot go by anything in the ST episode for logical consistency in regards to matter/energy and economics. Remember the intelligent solar chips? Making more of themselves off the power of the ship’s LIGHT BULBS? Seriously? E=MC2, so how much fluorescent lighting does it take to make even grams of matter? :dubious: But the fact is, economics change. Our current navy would be a laughable dream to even the entirity of Europe 200 years ago. Hundreds of ships each hundreds of feet long? All made of metal? Ludicrous! Absurd! All the wealth of Europe combined could not construct such a thing! And then as I said, obviously our Scifi (ST, SW, Firefly, Babylon 5) are based on the idea of relatively inexpensive drive technology requiring little fuel and extremely managable power requirement. Very very different from what we know, but what will come, we don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/63 "2011-07-05T00:55:35Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Then there’s the episodes where they use their transporters to repair genetic damage, so again, ‘so the fuck what?’ > > We really cannot go by anything in the ST episode for logical consistency in regards to matter/energy and economics. Remember the intelligent solar chips? Making more of themselves off the power of the ship’s LIGHT BULBS? Seriously? E=MC2, so how much fluorescent lighting does it take to make even grams of matter? :dubious: But that’s piss-poor science. It’s not necessarily shitty writing in the “characters who could solve this problem last week are nearly killed by the same problem this week”. > [@Chimera](#): > > And then as I said, obviously our Scifi (ST, SW, Firefly, Babylon 5) are based on the idea of relatively inexpensive drive technology requiring little fuel and extremely managable power requirement. Very very different from what we know, but what will come, we don’t know. At least Star Wars and B5 cheated when it came to FTL. Helps avoid all sorts of oddball questions. Like, instead of building their planet-killing goop from the newest Star Trek movie, why not just fire a roll of Charmin at the planet at 99.9% the speed of light? Same effect, pretty much. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/64 "2011-07-05T02:15:34Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn’t exist in the 24th century. We work to better ourselves. Really? Oh phew, I would hate for the future to be realistic and interesting. God damn it, Gene… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/65 "2011-07-05T03:20:06Z")
> [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](#): > > Really? Oh phew, I would hate for the future to be realistic and interesting. > > God damn it, Gene… Having the same system we do now is interesting? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/66 "2011-07-05T12:31:31Z")
Money is simply a medium for the exchange of goods and services. I don’t see that going away at any point in the future. But that is another thread (that has been done a few times). What was the number above for the Enterprise E? Eleven modern carriers in size? If sufficienty motivated and focused, there is no reason why Earth could not build 2-3 of those plus a large number of smaller ships. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/67 "2011-07-05T12:57:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Having the same system we do now is interesting? Like our current system or not, it provides motivation. I wasn’t joking above. In a world where everyone’s only motivation is to ‘work to better themselves’ who is going to do the shit work? Who works the dangerous asteroid strip mines? Who plunges toilets? Who mops? Who picks up the dog shit at the park? Who cleans up the roadkill? You go ahead and better yourself with this shovel. I’m going to command a starship. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/68 "2011-07-05T13:25:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Money is simply a medium for the exchange of goods and services. I don’t see that going away at any point in the future. > > But that is another thread (that has been done a few times). > > What was the number above for the Enterprise E? Eleven modern carriers in size? If sufficienty motivated and focused, there is no reason why Earth could not build 2-3 of those plus a large number of smaller ships. Enterprise is to an aircraft carrier as an aircraft carrier is to a 18th-centory ship of the line. If 18th century Earth could manufacture something like 100 ships of the line (roughly the amount in existance at any one time), there’s no reason to think that 25th century Earth can’t manufacture 100 Enterprises. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/69 "2011-07-05T13:51:12Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn’t exist in the 24th century. We work to better ourselves. Then why are they playing poker with chips? That always bugged me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/70 "2011-07-05T14:28:48Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Like our current system or not, it provides motivation. > > I wasn’t joking above. In a world where everyone’s only motivation is to ‘work to better themselves’ who is going to do the shit work? Who works the dangerous asteroid strip mines? Who plunges toilets? Who mops? Who picks up the dog shit at the park? Who cleans up the roadkill? > > You go ahead and better yourself with this shovel. I’m going to command a starship. > > -Joe In a world where replicators exist, who needs shovels? Who needs anything? Over in Great Debates we have already been thinking about what happens to society if robotics and computer programming solve the eye-hand problem (i.e., robotic devices get skilled enough to mimic the activities of a human being using their eyes and hands to do the sort of tasks often done on assembly lines) leading to most of the human race rendered deeply unnecessary for creating almost any product needed. Suddenly the 5 percent of Americans who own over half of the wealth in America don’t need to hire employees to live very, very well. And it’s even worse in other countries. (Hint: looks real fucking ugly to many of us.) A post-scarcity economy will be very different, one way or another. Shit jobs are likely to be exceedingly rare. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/71 "2011-07-05T14:46:41Z")
But other than Data, has anyone ever seen a robot on Star Trek? I’ve certainly never seen one on the Enterprise, which means that it’s crew members who are cleaning the bathrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/72 "2011-07-05T14:47:46Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > Then why are they playing poker with chips? That always bugged me. A 24th century variation of Strip Poker: the chips are good for obligatory sexual favors. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/73 "2011-07-05T15:01:04Z")
Maybe I missed it in this thread, but it occurs to me that the cost of building such a large ship wouldn’t be so much in the material, but the construction. If you built it on the ground, the cost of lifting it to outer space would be considerable, and if you built it in outer space, you would still have to lift the materials and assemble it in a hostile environment, whether in nearby orbit or on the moon. And trying to mine & manufacture refined construction materials from other planets and/or moons and/or asteroids to bypass the cost of shooting it into space is a magnitude higher in cost and complication than on our simple Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/74 "2011-07-05T15:08:47Z")
I think the owrking assumption is that reaching orbit will be considerably cheaper than it is today. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/75 "2011-07-05T15:14:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But other than Data, has anyone ever seen a robot on Star Trek? I’ve certainly never seen one on the Enterprise, which means that it’s crew members who are cleaning the bathrooms. Don’t need to because transporters are magic. All they need to do is get the ship’s computer to transport away any and all fecal matter from the bathroom as soon as it’s empty. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/76 "2011-07-05T15:17:54Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Maybe I missed it in this thread, but it occurs to me that the cost of building such a large ship wouldn’t be so much in the material, but the construction. If you built it on the ground, the cost of lifting it to outer space would be considerable, and if you built it in outer space, you would still have to lift the materials and assemble it in a hostile environment, whether in nearby orbit or on the moon. > > And trying to mine & manufacture refined construction materials from other planets and/or moons and/or asteroids to bypass the cost of shooting it into space is a magnitude higher in cost and complication than on our simple Earth. In Star Trek, they seem to have unlimited power supplies, and with some working tractor beams, you can lift nearly completed hulls into orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/77 "2011-07-05T15:19:29Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > What was the number above for the Enterprise E? Eleven modern carriers in size? If sufficienty motivated and focused, there is no reason why Earth could not build 2-3 of those plus a large number of smaller ships. Heh. Interesting choice of Enterprises for this example…The Sovereign Class is the only class that the Enterprises are in that the Enterprise is the only canonically known example thereof - although at least one other, the USS Sovereign, has to be assumed to exist. NX Class, there are at least 4 - NX-01 Enterprise, NX-02 Columbia, and the unfinished at the end of the series 03 and 04. (The Defiant from DS9 is not NX class, despite the NX designation in its registry number. It’s the prototype for the Defiant Class.) Constitution Class, there are at least 12 named - or at least known by their registry number - including 2 Enterprises (NCC-1701, and 1701-A), and at least 3 shown, but not identified. (The Constitution itself is only named in a pseudo-canonical sources.) Excelsior Class has 17 named (Including the Enterprise B and Excelsior), and 2 unidentified. Ambassador Class has at least 5 known examples, including the Enterprise C (but not including the Ambassador, which can be assumed to exist). No unidentified ships are otherwise identifiable as Ambassador Class. Galaxy Class, there are 6 known named examples, including the Enterprise D and Galaxy, and over a dozen unidentified (Mostly destroyed at Wolf 359). And each, aside from NX, have a number of ships variously identified, but not confirmed as, members of that class - 12 for Constitution, 7 Excelsior, 4 Ambassador, 3 Galaxy, and 3 Sovereign. (Exact numbers from Memory Alpha, but I only had to look it up to get the numbers - the only real surprise for me is the lack of a canonically identified USS Constitution.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/78 "2011-07-05T15:23:20Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Maybe I missed it in this thread, but it occurs to me that the cost of building such a large ship wouldn’t be so much in the material, but the construction. If you built it on the ground, the cost of lifting it to outer space would be considerable, and if you built it in outer space, you would still have to lift the materials and assemble it in a hostile environment, whether in nearby orbit or on the moon. > > And trying to mine & manufacture refined construction materials from other planets and/or moons and/or asteroids to bypass the cost of shooting it into space is a magnitude higher in cost and complication than on our simple Earth. Wrong and wrong. If you have the tech to be out in space to begin with, mining asteroids is cheaper. Ships like the Enterprise would be assembled in orbit using materials mined from asteroids. Nothing would come from the ground if they could help it. With force field technology, you can pressurize areas that need atmosphere for the workers while still utilizing a microgravity environment. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/79 "2011-07-05T15:54:54Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But the fact is, economics change. Our current navy would be a laughable dream to even the entirity of Europe 200 years ago. Hundreds of ships each hundreds of feet long? All made of metal? Ludicrous! Absurd! **All the wealth of Europe combined could not construct such a thing!** Well, that’s still true. ;)😛 ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423/80 "2011-07-05T17:23:45Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Don’t need to because transporters are magic. > > All they need to do is get the ship’s computer to transport away any and all fecal matter from the bathroom as soon as it’s empty. > > -Joe Actually they teleport the waste matter directly out of the bowels or bladder. I don’t recall anyone ever going to bathroom. Very handy during long staff meetings. Does anyone recall seeing a toilet on the Enterprise? Even they had a toilet it would be a frictionless surface that didn’t need cleaning or flushing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-fiction-how-much-does-it-typically-cost-to-produce-an-average-space-faring-warship/587423.md?page=5)