In Flanders Fields

My grandfather, who was on the Somme and who lived until I was 23, and my father who, obviously, knew his own father a great deal better than I did, would not, I believe, agree with the word “twaddle” here, nor yet that all the nations involved were just making cynical grabs for wealth and territory.

Yeah, exactly which territory were the U.S., Great Britain, Canada and Australia making cynical grabs for?

Just the territory on the bottom of a balance sheet that showed how much the British and French would default on their loans if they lost their war.

I suggest anybody who thinks that any of the gerat nations involved were motivated by altruism go back and study your history more closely. Or, if you prefer, listen to the Hard Core History episodes dealing with the war. That war wasn’t the fault of any one nation, nor were any of the great powers involved planning on coming out of it without gain. We are still paying for Britain, France, et. al. and how they shared out Ottoman Turk territories among themselves, for example.

Kaiser Bill is right up there at the top for who started it. :slight_smile:

Uh, the fucking poem. :rolleyes:

In the case of the UK, the Middle East, of course. And we’re still paying for it.

I think this is somewhat confusing results with motives.

The UK did not enter the Great War thinking ‘oh, I think I’d like a slice of the Middle East out of this, please’. For one, Turkey wasn’t even on the menu yet, as it were: they only joined in October, while the UK entered the War in August.

Rather, they were thinking something along the lines of ‘we must support our allies on the continent, or Germany/Austria will become absolutely dominant there - plus, we can’t have Germany trampling helpless Belgium like that’.

When the War was over, yes, there was an unseemly scramble for spoils - but the hope of spoils is not why the UK entered the War. More like it was fear of the results if they didn’t join.

The poem is one of those traditionally read at Anzac Day services in AUS. “Recessional” (Kipling, Great Britain) is another. The Australian War Memorial calls Fromelles (Flanders, 19-20 July) theWorst night in Australian military history, and Flanders poppies are the symbol of Remembrance Day (November 11).

We’ve always thought that we were in the war together with the Canadians and the English, and that we share our experience of the war with the Germans and the Turks.

The attack on the “appropriation of a Canadian poem” feels like an attack on our sacred beliefs, and an attack on our war dead. I hope that wasn’t the intention.

Nicely put, Malthus.

Here’s a good article on how the Dutch remember the U.S. role in WWII: http://wapo.st/1cViyfa

And there is Kipling’s poem,

If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.

Especially noteworthy because Kipling pulled strings to get his son into the army–his poor eyesight made him medically unfit. He died shortly after arriving at the front.

Christ, I did not know that.

I respectfully disagree with your comment.

You also have this amazing one:

Jesus wept!

Never was the hatchet buried more thoroughly nor in a more statesmanlike fashion.

Well, I’m a Canadian, and for what it’s worth I have no problems with anyone ‘appropriating’ that poem. :wink:

His death led to one of Kipling’s best (and most haunting) poems, IMHO

There was even a movie about it: My Boy Jack (TV Movie 2007) - IMDb

Thank you, OP, for posting this famous, beautiful and appropriate poem.

This sentiment is as baffling as it is Pit-worthy. The British Empire lost over 1 million fighting men in The War to End All Wars, and over 2 million wounded. French losses were even higher. Three other countries had casualties exceeding five million. The sentiment that U.S. shouldn’t cherish a poem commemorating losses in a battle where U.S. didn’t participate is … XXXX [adjectives that come to mind might get me a Warning from the Mod].

I guess Whiskey Dickens also thinks it’s inappropriate for Americans to watch Shakespeare’s King Henry V, or to cherish the poem Horatius at the Bridge. :smack: And heaven help us if Americans admire the W.W. II bravery at Dunkirk, or lament the deaths at Hiroshima.

I believe we get full credit for that.
:rolleyes: