# In Glengarry Glen Ross, what exactly are the salesmen selling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998 "2012-03-07T01:53:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/61 "2012-03-08T17:15:31Z")
The scene when Shelley is berating Williamson about f’ing up Roma’s play with Lingk is a masterwork. One of the things I love about it is throughout the scene, Shelley is eating peanuts, or sunflower seeds, or something. But I think he’s pantomiming the whole thing- you never actually see anything going into his mouth. He even picks his teeth at one point, as if one of them is stuck in his molars. But I think the single most chilling moment that sucks the air out of the room is after Williamson misspeaks and Lingk starts freaking out, causing Roma to tapdance doublespeed; Roma finally ushers him out the door, and turns around and gives Williamson: The. Look. Pacino just fixes a dead bead on Spacey which precedes a couple minutes of the finest insult work Mamet has ever written, but that monologue is almost overshadowed by the way Pacino looks at Spacey. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/62 "2012-03-08T19:46:30Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I’m jealous. 🙂 Well then, sir or madam, this is your lucky day, because it just so happens that… ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/63 "2012-03-08T20:44:21Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Glengarry Glen Ross is my favorite movie ever. Or, at least top 3 with Kill Bill and Jesus Christ Superstar. That scene isn’t my favorite scene, but I do love it. I love every scene in that movie. > > But, I’m posting to thank you. Because that is my FAVORITE SNL skit ever. And I haven’t thought of it in ages. It’s a great skit, one of the best ever, but it’s a little cringe-worthy to watch because it sounds like most of the audience aren’t getting the reference. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/64 "2012-03-08T21:22:43Z")
Gil Gunderson on “The Simpsons” was based on Shelley, yes? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/65 "2012-03-08T22:24:03Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Gil Gunderson on “The Simpsons” was based on Shelley, yes? Yes. Specifically, Jack Lemmon’s portrayal of the character (over actors have done it differently). Lemmon himself did a variation on his Shelley Levine when he guested on “The Simpsons” as the salesman who gets Marge to purchase the pretzel franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/66 "2012-03-09T03:05:14Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Though I can appreciate this movie for the acting, and the fact that it does what it sets out to do very well, I simply cannot watch it without breaking out in horrible hives of nervous paranoia. It’s like an overdose of a-tiger-is-about-to-eat-me levels of stress adrenaline. I’m far too tame to be able to metabolize that degree of anxiety! I’ve only seen it once and I really never want to repeat experience. > > Signed, > Mild Marge I read this comment the other day at work, and I just wanted to say that, yeah, that’s part of the allure of this film: it’s tense. REALLY tense. It makes _Alien_ look like a by-the-numbers exploitative horror flick it’s so freaking inTENSE. Mamet is great at that kind of thing, and this film may be the best actual execution of the concept in film history. Virtually nothing happens in the entire movie, yet you feel like you’ve spent 100 minutes being levitated over shards of broken glass and radioactive carpet tacks with a piece of concrete from Hoover Dam about to fall on you while the bars of a cage slowly contract, making escape impossible. It’s slowly, quietly tortuous, and the payoff isn’t even a release of that tension; it ends with just a slow pinhole deflation that isn’t even loud enough to whisper, let alone sigh. I love this movie, but I totally understand where you’re coming from, **Mild Ellen**. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/67 "2012-03-09T03:33:07Z")
_Death of a Fucking Salesman_ ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/68 "2012-03-09T15:10:19Z")
My first exposure to \*\*\*Glengarry \*\*\*was the movie, which I absolutely loved. But a few years back, I saw the Broadway revival, with Alan Alda as Shelley Levene, Liev Schreiber as Ricky Roma, Jeffrey (Hank on _ **The Larry Sanders Show** _) Tambor as George Aaronow, and Gordon (the redheaded detective on _ **NYPD Blue** _) Clapp as Moss. (I forget who played Williamson- he was a very good actor, but he wasn’t famous.) I still loved the play, but the approach taken was completely different. The movie was a heavy drama with a lot of darkly funny moments. The Broadway revival played like a Neil Simon farce that ended in tragedy. Mamet’s language was exactly the same in both productions… but whereas the movie cast played everything straight, the play I saw was a laugh riot! The best performance of the bunch came from Gordon Clapp. When Clapp’s Dave Moss is trying to persuade George to stage a burglary, I swear, he was channeling Bud Abbott- the entire conversation came across as a “Who’s On First” routine. SImilarly, the opening act, which dwells on Shelley’s attempts to wheedle some good leads from Williamson, was HILARIOUS. It goes to show, there’s a LOT you can do with a great script. \*\*\*Glengarry \*\*\*actually works as a bleak drama OR as a gut-busting comedy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/69 "2012-03-09T15:24:27Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But a few years back, I saw the Broadway revival, with Alan Alda as Shelley Levene, Liev Schreiber as Ricky Roma, Jeffrey (Hank on _ **The Larry Sanders Show** _) Tambor as George Aaronow, and Gordon (the redheaded detective on _ **NYPD Blue** _) Clapp as Moss. As per Wiki, was Lingk played by Tom Wopat of DUKES OF HAZZARD fame? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/70 "2012-03-09T15:27:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As per Wiki, was Lingk played by Tom Wopat of DUKES OF HAZZARD fame? Yes, he was! I forgot about him. He was surprisingly effective as a meek, middle aged loser (I guess I still thought of him as Luke Duke!) In Act 2, he has a fair number of lines. In Act 1, he just listens quietly to Ricky’s pitch… but sitting quietly and listening takes good acting. Wopat had to convey just with his face how spellbinding and attractive Roma was to him. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/71 "2012-03-09T15:45:01Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Mamet’s language was exactly the same in both productions… but whereas the movie cast played everything straight, the play I saw was a laugh riot! The essence of Mamet. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/72 "2012-03-09T21:51:14Z")
Anyone have a clue what the title refers to? I get that Glengarry is the area of ‘swampland’, but what is Glen Ross? mmm ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/73 "2012-03-09T22:00:20Z")
Glen Ross was another land development from the old days, that wasn’t quite as crappy and so it was a lot easier to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/74 "2012-03-10T01:52:04Z")
One was “mountain view”- not sure if that’s G’garry or G’ross. It was a big deal that Shelley sold mountain view lots at the end (until the reveal of course). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/75 "2012-03-10T02:58:18Z")
I was just rewatching part of this film due to this thread and Glen Ross Farms was a previous, better, package (as **Lemur866** said) with which Moss laments that “they killed the golden goose” by selling the lots too fast and presumably for too little money in order to unload them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/76 "2012-03-10T03:04:15Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Anyone have a clue what the title refers to? > > I get that Glengarry is the area of ‘swampland’, but what is Glen Ross? Just watched it again yesterday thanks to this thread. Glen Ross is in Arizona, so presumably it’s desert scrub. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/77 "2012-03-10T03:14:51Z")
To add to the above: I think Shelley was still trying to sell Glen Ross. He lies to the prospect about representing ‘Rio Rancho’ which isn’t the kind of name you’d associate with Florida property. Larry, one of the unsuccessful calls Shelley makes, says “My wife filled in a form and we have been plagued for the last year…” So the lead was a year old. (I endured a timeshare presentation the other day, to get about $100 worth of supermarket vouchers. The initial approach was me filling in a form at a stall near a tourist attraction.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/78 "2012-03-10T18:10:28Z")
On a quasi-related note, we had a salesperson from ADT here this morning and “Always Be Closing” kept running through my head as he talked about this package and that and how he’d have to “talk to his manager” to find out about a discount, etc. Had he been on the phone, I’m sure he would have paused to ask Grace how many systems he’d be installing that week but he’s sure he can squeeze us in. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/79 "2012-03-11T07:19:42Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I was never a Jack Lemmon fan, but I agree with every word here. > > But… what makes the performance even more brilliiant is the way Shelley Levene changes when he THINKS he’s made a big sale to the Nyborgs. He’s been such a pitiable sad sack up to then- but when he thinks he’s made a sale, he becomes confident, then arrogant, and becomes condescending and insulting to office manager John Williamson. Just when we feel sorry for Shelley, he shows us a glimpse of what a prick he must have been when he was “The Machine,” and we start to understand just why John Williamson loathed him and had been jerking him around with such lousy leads. There is one scene that I believe is the moral heart of the story. (Who am I kidding, that story has no heart! It’s the moral spleen.) It’s when Levene is describing the sale to Roma. He says “It was great. It was so fucking great. It was like they wilted all at once.” That’s when you realize that the man is a fucking vampire. Up until this point, you convinced yourself, despite the evidence, that he did this job because he was desperate. His daughter is in the hospital! He has to make money, and this is the way he knows how. But no. He’s desperate for his fix, and he’s the worst, the most immoral of the bunch. Roma, he’s a tactician, and he likes outwitting the other guy. Baldwin’s character, he likes the power and sense of domination he gets from fucking over the little guy. They’re slimy, they’re scum, but Levene is worse. His kick isn’t from winning or even from defeating someone, it’s from the other guy losing, and suffering for it. The glee in his voice as he describes the life seeping out from the poor couple he thinks he sold. “They both kind of imperceptibly slumped.” He’s fucking evil and you feel like shit for ever rooting for him, even a little. It’s a horrible, slimy feeling, but it’s absolutely amazing and beautiful the way Mamet and Lemon have conspired to create that feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998/80 "2012-03-11T07:40:11Z")
A super minor thing I’ve always wondered about (haven’t lost sleep, just kind of wondered): Early in the movie there’s a scene where Levene is making his calls and tells a pigeon (maybe the guy he went to visit) that he’s in town briefly from his ranch. He mentions where his ranch is- someplace specific like Las Cruces, New Mexico (wasn’t there, but somewhere real and specific) as I recall, and of course the character is an on-his-ass two-steps-above-sidewalk grifter working out of an office. I’m curious: is there anything illegal about flat out lying like that in a sales pitch if it’s not related directly to what the person is selling? I’m pretty sure nobody would ever go to jail for it, but I wonder if it’s enough to void a contract after a cooling down period or if there’s any other possible repercussion other than being called a lying sack of dog shit (or much worse if Mamet is writing it). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-glengarry-glen-ross-what-exactly-are-the-salesmen-selling/614998.md?page=5)