# "IN God We Trust": Religion, or Tradition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617 "2018-02-26T18:45:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/21 "2018-02-26T22:56:42Z")
It’s completely non-factual to state that modern Catholics have multiple Gods. And no, it’s not a matter of viewpoint, but one of historical fact. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/22 "2018-02-26T23:14:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s completely non-factual to state that modern Catholics have multiple Gods. And no, it’s not a matter of viewpoint, but one of historical fact. I think the more pertinent question is why the poster stated Catholics are poly-theistic, apparently in apposition to other Christian sects? So far as I know, all Christians who are not Unitarians accept the notion of the Trinity. This makes me think the poster is not referencing the Trinity, but, rather, the “deification” of Mary. Anyway, that’s completely a hijack of the thread, so let’s not allow that to happen. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/23 "2018-02-26T23:16:37Z")
As for ceremonial deism, when you make a statement to the effect that you are trying to put “God” back in the schools, you pretty much ruin the idea that it’s merely “ceremonial” anything. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/24 "2018-02-26T23:20:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s completely non-factual to state that modern Catholics have multiple Gods. And no, it’s not a matter of viewpoint, but one of historical fact. Good to have it confirmed that no catholic ever prays to Mary or Jesus. Or any saint. Back to the OP, I’d say it’s clearly an establishment of religion, and it was equally clearly an establishment of religion when it was put on the money and into the pledge. That was the whole point - we were trying to differentiate ourselves from the godless communists, and weren’t going to let a little thing like the constitution stand in the way of McCarthyan hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/25 "2018-02-26T23:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the more pertinent question is why the poster stated Catholics are poly-theistic, apparently in apposition to other Christian sects? So far as I know, all Christians who are not Unitarians accept the notion of the Trinity. This makes me think the poster is not referencing the Trinity, but, rather, the “deification” of Mary. Or saints in general. Anyway, then you get into “worship v. venerate” (which are synonyms in a layman’s thesaurus, BTW) and that’ll take you over to the “Muslims worship Muhammad” argument. People outside any given religion will rarely see things the way people inside it see it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/26 "2018-02-26T23:24:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s completely non-factual to state that modern Catholics have multiple Gods… No? Who’s the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, repeatedly mentioned, _separately,_ in Catholic liturgy? Not to mention the worship (yes, if you pray to Her, that’s worship) of The Holy Mary. And then there are the saints, who are also prayed to… Not recognizing Catholicism as a multiple-deity religion is like saying deism doesn’t recognize the supernatural. It’s a knee-jerk reaction that doesn’t hold up on analysis. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/27 "2018-02-26T23:33:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Not recognizing Catholicism as a multiple-deity religion is like saying deism doesn’t recognize the supernatural. It’s a knee-jerk reaction that doesn’t hold up on analysis. Well, what it _really_ is is a disagreement in terminology, which a single person will apply inconsistently as they refer to different religions. For example the average person -even a christian- will cheerfully talk about greek or norse gods who are piss-all in the powers/omniscience/creator departments, but will not apply the same “god” term to characters of equivalent or greater power in their own religions, mostly because they’re monotheists, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/28 "2018-02-27T00:14:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [URL=“[Florida schools must display 'In God We Trust' under House passed bill](https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/366521002)”] The sponsor of the bill says it is to promote religion in the public school. I think this is wrong. I agree. It is government mandating a religion, expressly forbidden by the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/29 "2018-02-27T00:18:56Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Good thing they were clear on how unconstitutional they intended this to be. It never fails to amaze me how many people are so utterly ignorant of what “establishment of religion” actually means. The bill in question is completely constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/30 "2018-02-27T00:22:58Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It never fails to amaze me how many people are so utterly ignorant of what “establishment of religion” actually means. The bill in question is completely constitutional. I seriously doubt caselaw agrees with you. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/31 "2018-02-27T03:46:01Z")
Discussions and comments regarding monotheism vs polytheism or the deification of saints are not pertinent to this thread. The argument is fine, but it will no longer be tolerated in this thread; open a new thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/32 "2018-02-27T03:47:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Whenever anyone claims that a religious icon like “In God We Trust” is just ceremonial… I just WISH the people I see around me were open-minded enough to claim that it’s ceremonial. What I hear people saying is that “In God We Trust” proves that the US is a Christian nation. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/33 "2018-02-27T04:34:16Z")
I propose a compromise: Pass legislation that requires all school libraries to have at least one copy of “In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash” on the shelves. I can get behind that one. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/34 "2018-02-27T05:41:01Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The apologist’s answer to that is “There is only one God, but He goes by different names.” > > Which gets a little problematical when you try to include modern religions with multiple gods, like Hindu, or Catholic. Hate to break it to you, but Hinduism and Catholicism are not “modern religions”. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/35 "2018-02-27T09:02:51Z")
I think this thread shows why religion does not belong in schools. Just in Christianity we’ll have endless bickering over how to number the 10 commandments, what translation of the Bible to use, salvation through faith vs deeds, etc. I was miserable in grade school because my teacher led us in the Roman Catholic version of the Lord’s prayer rather than the Episcopal version. What do we do about Orthodox Jews who don’t write “God” and use “G-d” instead? It’s just a big FU to those students and teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/36 "2018-02-27T12:56:52Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Hate to break it to you, but Hinduism and Catholicism are not “modern religions”. They are modern in the sense that they are still around and currently widely practiced. Not so with Ra, Zeus, Thor or the Great Bear Spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/37 "2018-02-27T13:13:09Z")
If I were in a school where this requirement was passed, I would dutifully put up a large poster stating “In God We Trust”, just like the law requires. I would, however, put the message in English-alphabet-transcribed Arabic. If anyone challenged me on it, I’d tell them to take it up with the state legislature who required the sign. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/38 "2018-02-27T15:06:10Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I am looking forward to watching the reactions when the Church of Satan sues to have “In Satan we trust” posted alongside the new signs. Regarding the [Ten Commandments](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/12/arkansas-panel-clears-way-for-new-ten-commandments-marker.html)monument on the Arkansas State Capitol grounds: “Plans for Arkansas’ monument also sparked a push by the Satanic Temple for a competing statue of Baphomet, a goat-headed, angel-winged creature accompanied by two smiling children. Efforts to install that display, however, were blocked by a law enacted this year requiring legislative approval before the commission could consider a monument proposal.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/39 "2018-02-27T15:44:43Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > They are modern in the sense that they are still around and currently widely practiced. Not so with Ra, Zeus, Thor or the Great Bear Spirit. I think a better term would be “current”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617/40 "2018-02-27T15:50:19Z")
Are any of the groups pushing for these monuments even _pretending_ that it is for the purpose of ceremonial deism any more? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-god-we-trust-religion-or-tradition/809617.md?page=3)