# In Memory of Daryl **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846 "2003-02-22T22:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/301 "2003-02-26T13:55:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The “gay militia?” “Separate platoons for gay men and lesbians. It’s a brilliant strategy! First you send in the lesbian platoon. _YAAAAAAAHHHH! RAPISTS PATRIARCHY YOU’RE GONNA DIE!_ War’s over, send in the gay men to clean up. _Oh my god, look at this mess! You call that architecture? Burn it down, we’ll say the lesbians did it._” - Maggie Cassella ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/302 "2003-02-26T14:02:53Z")
I wish we had a thread for people to truly show their sympathy, empathy, despair, hurt, concern, pain and shock at the tragedy that is a life ended too early. Dary deserves such a thread. Did we know him? Most of us didn’t. But he was a human being and he hurt. That alone is reason for us to mourn. Not because he was gay, not because he was a good student, not because his parents may or may not have disowned their own flesh and blood, not because he felt he could not keep who he really was a secret simply because others may or may not have apporoved. We should mourn him because he was a fellow human being who hurt profoundly for no good reason. Daryl was in pain. When it comes right down to it, it doesn’t matter why. What matters is that a young man was in so much pain that he couldn’t see past it and because of that, a human life is now no longer. We will never know what he could have done, what he could have become, what funny jokes he may have told, whose friend he may have become, whose main joy and love in life he may have become; not to mention whose enemy he could have become, what causes he could have championed and which he could have protested. A lifetime of possibilities has been taken from the world. When it comes right down to it, it doesn’t even matter whose hand caused it. We should mourn for what might have been and for what was that is now gone. I wish we had someplace to mourn together. At times like this, some of us need a place to be together. It makes us feel not so alone. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/303 "2003-02-26T14:23:43Z")
This seems an appropriate thread for the following excerpts from a much longer poem (apologies to the mods if this steps over the line for usage): > [@](#): > > Yes, it is Paul you see – the Saul of Tarsus > That was a fiery Jew, and had men slain > For saying Something was beyond the Law, > And in ourselves. I fed my suffering soul > Upon the Law till I went famishing, > Not knowing that I starved. How should I know, > More then than any, that the food I had – > What else it may have been – was not for me? > My fathers and their fathers and their fathers > Had found it good, and said there was no other, > And I was of that line. When Stephen fell, > Among the stones that crushed his life away, > There was no place alive that I could see > For such a man. Why should a man be given > To live beyond the Law? So I said then, > As men say now to me. > > […] The world is here > Today, and it may not be gone tomorrow; > For there are millions, and there may be more, > To make in turn a various estimation > Of its old ills and ashes, and the traps > Of its apparent wrath. Many with ears > That hear not yet, shall have ears given to them, > And then they shall hear strangely. Many with eyes > That are incredulous of the Mystery > Shall yet be driven to feel, and then to read > Where language has an end and is a veil, > Not woven of our words. Many that hate > Their kind are soon to know that without love > Their faith is but the perjured name of nothing. > I that have done some hating in my time > See now no time for hate; I that have left, > Fading behind me like familiar lights > That are to shine no more for my returning, > Home, friends, and honors, - I that have lost all else > For wisdom, and the wealth of it, say now > To you that out of wisdom has come love > That measures and is of itself the measure, > Of works and hope and faith. > > – excerpted from “The Three Taverns” by Edwin Arlington Robinson ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/304 "2003-02-26T14:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilbeth \* > \*\*I wish we had a thread for people to truly show their sympathy, empathy, despair, hurt, concern, pain and shock at the tragedy that is a life ended too early. > > Dary deserves such a thread. > > Did we know him? Most of us didn’t. > > But he was a human being and he hurt. > > That alone is reason for us to mourn. > > Not because he was gay, not because he was a good student, not because his parents may or may not have disowned their own flesh and blood, not because he felt he could not keep who he really was a secret simply because others may or may not have apporoved. > > We should mourn him because he was a fellow human being who hurt profoundly for no good reason. Daryl was in pain. When it comes right down to it, it doesn’t matter why. > > What matters is that a young man was in so much pain that he couldn’t see past it and because of that, a human life is now no longer. > > We will never know what he could have done, what he could have become, what funny jokes he may have told, whose friend he may have become, whose main joy and love in life he may have become; not to mention whose enemy he could have become, what causes he could have championed and which he could have protested. > > A lifetime of possibilities has been taken from the world. When it comes right down to it, it doesn’t even matter whose hand caused it. > > We should mourn for what might have been and for what was that is now gone. > > I wish we had someplace to mourn together. At times like this, some of us need a place to be together. It makes us feel not so alone. \*\* there’s a whole forum (MPSIMS). The PIT (IMHO) isn’t an appropriate place for a thread mourning some one and their lost life. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/305 "2003-02-26T16:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **wring** \* > \*\*there’s a whole forum (MPSIMS). The PIT (IMHO) isn’t an appropriate place for a thread mourning some one and their lost life. \*\* I started it here in the Pit, **wring** , because my emotions were twofold – grief at the death of a young man I did not know in a real tragedy, because whatever the facts (and I personally have no grounds to doubt the word of **Andygirl** as being a relay of what Daryl said about his family and what they said to him, just as I have no grounds to doubt their grief) – but also **anger** – anger at the state that American society is in that permits tragedies like this to happen, anger at my fellow Christians for paying more attention to isolated Bible verses, and building a homophobic edifice on them, than to the words of their Lord on how to treat others, male or female, gay or straight, black, white, red, or yellow, or anything in between, old or young, gentle or its antithesis, kindly or hostile – there’s **one** absolute and overarching command there, and 99% of Christians pay lip service to it and then try to justify their behavior in contravention of it by finding another Bible verse. I stand firmly in opposition to the hatefulness often shown by fundamentalists that we have, rightfully or not, read into Daryl’s parents’ behavior. But I tried to treat **Joe Cool** and **Jersey** as my brother and sister in Christ, with whom I often disagree, and to see their point that we were indeed judging the parents, and harshly. I didn’t know either Daryl or his parents; I had no grounds to judge them for his particular death. But I have known people who see gay people not as oppressed people seeking their fair rights as human beings, but as some sort of subversive group out to destroy American society, and I loathe their sanctimonious attitudes. And so I wanted a vehicle in which I, and others who felt the same as I, could vent anger at the tragedy and the state of affairs that allows tragedies like this to go on, unchecked. And IMHO anyone who defends allowing something like this to keep on happening is sinning against man and God, regardless of what their justifications for doing so might be. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/306 "2003-02-26T16:32:48Z")
I understood your reasons. I think, however, that a tribute thread would have been better served in a different forum, **and** a different thread specifying “parents who disown their kids 'cause of their sexual preference deserve scorn” would have achieved a couple of different (and IMHO better) goals: 1. the specific of a tribute thread to this young man would have been better able to be preserved, and 2. we’d not have had to deal with the specific hijacking of ‘well, prove that this specific set of parents did such and such’ (which, as I’ve noted is damn near impossible" 3. allowed a discussion of how certain strongly held beliefs can lead to tragedies. My post above was not intended as a reproach to you, but as a reminder to that poster, that a clear tribute thread started in the PIt wouldn’t have gone anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/307 "2003-02-26T19:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > Anyway, I just wanted to say that I don’t think that the Christians in the north are less than the Christians in the south, or vice versa. I never said that. Let’s roll tape: > [@](#): > > I noticed that even on my way here, the more south and southwest I went, the more “God” oriented everything was/is. How could things not be _more_ God-oriented in the south and west, without having been _less_ God-oriented somewhere else? I mean, feel free to retract your words. No harm, no foul. But please don’t say “I didn’t say that” when it’s right back there where I can refer back to it. > [@](#): > > I was just so suprised on how it’s ok with people to have these bill board, unlike in the north. In my experience, and I lived in the north east all my life, it seems to be unacceptable. “don’t want to offend anyone”. And having lived in both the NE and SE, I can say that occasionally it’s not a bad idea to think of how people will react, how you would respond, and whether they might not have a point. I’m glad your friend in SE TN has such beautiful Christian fellowship, but. When I lived in SW VA and worked in NE TN, the folks down there weren’t bashful about their Christianity. Which meant I’d periodically see letters in the paper quoting the Leviticus verse about how all homosexuals should be put to death. For awhile, one local school was giving its students “release time” in the middle of the day so they could attend a Bible class offered by a nearby church. Then a pagan group also wanted to offer a class to students during the release-time hour. All of a sudden, no release time anymore. Fellowship is great for _our_ religion, was the message. And I won’t even go into how the local Christians reacted when White Zombie scheduled a concert at Viking Hall in Bristol TN. Up here in Maryland, a church I pass periodically has had “I know what you did last night. --God” on its signboard for many months. Yeah, that’s the God we want to share with the world: the ultimate peeping Tom/superspy. > [@](#): > > Also, RTFirefly, I don’t think you should be saying that these signs or people who put the signs up are "not what they seem. Unless, of course, you have talked to them all. There are bad apples everywhere, that doesn’t mean they are all bad. I didn’t say they were. My point was that just because there are more signs, doesn’t mean the people are more Christian. Questioning your claim that they were, didn’t mean I was claiming the opposite. > [@](#): > > someone we don’t know, who obviously didn’t care if his death would affect people in a horrible way? What a cold, uncaring young man. Betcha he did it just to get back at his parents. Ungrateful lout. The world is better off without him. [/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/308 "2003-02-26T20:28:02Z")
RTF, do you really not understand that saying things are more God-oriented in the Southwest is not the same thing as saying Christians in the Southwest are more Christian than those in the Northeast? Please respond to what she wrote, without putting words in her mouth. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/309 "2003-02-26T21:00:31Z")
I took **Jersey** ’s statement, and **RTF** ’s response to mean that there were more Christians _numerically speaking_ and in terms of their influence, in the SW, vs. the NE. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/310 "2003-02-26T21:30:45Z")
Me too. And for the record, I hate the signs. I hate anyone wearing their passion on their sleeve (or their lawn). I’m not even a big fan of Harley t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/311 "2003-02-26T22:41:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > RTF, do you really not understand that saying things are more God-oriented in the Southwest is not the same thing as saying Christians in the Southwest are more Christian than those in the Northeast? Please respond to what she wrote, without putting words in her mouth. First of all, it might help if you identified where exactly I put words in her mouth. Second, what _does_ this “more God-oriented” phrase mean? It sure was intended to mean _something_ about how the overall level of devotion to God differed from one region of the country to another. And JD was clearly discussing specifically Christian devotion. (BTW, didn’t she say back on p.5 that she was leaving the thread?) Whether she meant there were **more** Christians in the south and west, or whether she meant there were **better** Christians there, hardly matters; my comments demonstrate that there is reason to doubt that one can reach either conclusion on the basis of these signs. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/312 "2003-02-26T22:42:39Z")
Doesn’t necessarily mean much, of course. Montreal has a big-ass, illuminated crucifix on top of the mountain, and Canada’s largest church on the other side of it. And we’re still San Francisco North. (Our damn _cathedral_ is called Mary Queen of the World…!) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/313 "2003-02-26T23:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Doesn’t necessarily mean much, of course. Montreal has a big-ass, illuminated crucifix on top of the mountain, and Canada’s largest church on the other side of it. And we’re still San Francisco North. (Our damn _cathedral_ is called Mary Queen of the World…!) Yeah…but you’re a pack of Catholics…not “real Christians.” ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/314 "2003-02-26T23:27:59Z")
Yeah, I said that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/315 "2003-02-27T00:00:36Z")
Saudi Arabia is very “God-centered” too. So is India. So is Iran. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/316 "2003-02-27T00:32:01Z")
Let me add that those white-words-on-black billboards attributed to God are hardly speaking of the God described in John 3:16 – they’re more like the parodies of God that get denounced by new-minted atheists on the average of once a week in GD. (And IMHO are violations of the Third Commandment.) That said, as a Christian myself, I have to agree with **Jersey** to this extent – it’s more pleasant to live in an area where people are expected to live out their faith outwardly, even if there is disagreement on specifics between them. Barb and I got in trouble for advocating a greater emphasis on evangelism at an Episcopal church we went to, up North. But it often seems like what people are living out and showing outwardly has its best New Testament parallel in the Pharisees (and in the times when Paul couldn’t quite get himself out of the Pharisee mindset) and not in Jesus and His teachings. **Joe** , I submit to you that that’s at the root of our differences – from what I’ve seen, my impression is, you see the Bible as God’s Rules for living a holy life; I see it as a reference for living out what Jesus commanded. Kindly don’t take that as a slam, but think it through and tell me where I’m wrong in it (assuming you see it that way.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/317 "2003-02-27T14:05:53Z")
Heh. I’m going to retire to New Mexico because (hopefully) there won’t be enough people to make evangelism as annoying as it could be in a more populated part of the south. I don’t know why you christians can’t just keep it in your clubhouse like any other religion. Always with the public displays!😉 ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/318 "2003-02-27T14:41:44Z")
After all, Jesus did tell his followers to make the biggest public display of one’s righteousness as possible. No, wait–he said the exact opposite, didn’t he? They have their reward in full, and all that? Of course, this seems to be one of those ideas the Bible that _is_ subject to negotiation and interpretation, unlike homosexuality. I’ve never been very good at picking those out. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/319 "2003-02-27T23:51:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*there’s a whole forum (MPSIMS). The PIT (IMHO) isn’t an appropriate place for a thread mourning some one and their lost life. \*\* I know, that was my point. I wasn’t complaining that this thread exists, In fact, it serves to help people work through their anger. But since this thred was the first I had seen about this and it struck me as such a sad situation I placed my comments about my feelings here. I think it would have been nice to have an MPSIMS thread about it too (there may even be one–I didn’t see one, I saw this first), even though it is far from pointless. I didn’t mean to imply Poly was wrong in any way–I understand his feelings about this. Sorry. I was just deeply saddened and affected by this and the fighting was making me feel worse. But you’re right–I should have started a thread in another forum but I wasn’t personally involved in the situation and I was afraid the rancor here might spill over. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846/320 "2003-03-01T11:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hopefool \* > \*\*After trudging through 6 pages of posts, I have just one question… > > :::looks around and makes sure this is ok for the pit:::: > > Why are certain people allowed to hijack a very sincere thread about the demise of some young man and instead turn it into _another_ rehashing of their _personal_ belief system against whatever the issue of the moment is, albeit ever so slightly related to the initial topic at hand? Wouldn’t this be the best opportunity ever to let this state their tired rhetoric whilst ignoring it and just going on with the important conversation? \*\* I think what the fundamentalists are trying to do - and through I try real hard not to do it myself, I do admire such a tactic - is disrupt threads in order to prevent any progress on gay-rights discussions on the Board. Take for example the thread on what to do about gay teens. Every post that forces people to argue about their beliefs is a post in which no progress can be made on pushing anyone’s agenda into schools. IMHO, if people want to have productive threads like “Gay Teens - A Debate” or grieving threads like this one, things would probably work out better at a less pluralistic board in which there are only people who agree with them. UnuMondo [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-memory-of-daryl/156846.md?page=17)