# In musicals where two groups sing different parts of the song simultaneously **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617 "2005-10-30T19:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/21 "2005-10-31T13:12:40Z")
“Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel” is also sung by the cast of “Hairspray” on the Broadways Cares/Carols for a Cure 2004 CD. Harvey Fierstein is great! The song from Phantom is “Notes.” I love it! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/22 "2005-10-31T13:15:43Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > Am I the only one who finds this really irritating? One example is in Fiddler on the Roof, during the “Tradition” song, when after the papas, mamas, sons, and daughters sing their verse, they all sing it again, but simultaneously. Also, one common exercise when I was a kid was with the Row Row Row Your Boat song, for one group to start singing, then the other group to start a few seconds later. I always thought that sounded terrible and never understood why we did it. I love stuff like that. You’re talking about canons, fugues, and other very-structured musical forms which formed the backbone of J. S. Bach’s work (as well as the other Baroque composers). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/23 "2005-10-31T13:19:49Z")
From what I recall, to write songs like that is to perform a very mechanical function. To write songs like that _well_ is to achieve some of the highest pinnacles of Western Art. Give some Bach a whirl. If you can’t dig that, then you just don’t like counterpoint. No biggie. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/24 "2005-10-31T13:48:16Z")
And Forbidden Broadway Volume 2 has “Fugue for Scalpers,” a parody of “Fuge for Tinhorns” that is so good. I got two tickets here For Phantom in the rear But you can see real good through the chandelier. Half-price, half-price, my wife kept these tickets on ice. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/25 "2005-10-31T16:29:58Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The song from Phantom is “Notes.” I love it! This is one of my favorite musical tunes also. A little different than the OP’s point because it doesn’t recombine previously separate parts; separate parts are woven together through the entire song. However it is called [Prima Donna](http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Phantom-Of-The-Opera/Prima-Donna.html). “Notes” immediately precedes it; they kind of run together. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/26 "2005-10-31T19:18:05Z")
the technical (musical) term for singing/playing two or more different melodies at the same time is called (drum roll please) **[Quodlibet](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Quodlibet)** ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/27 "2005-10-31T19:56:49Z")
Count me among those who like it too. A few other examples: - Also from the Buffy musical, near the end of ‘walk through the fire’ there are, I think, parts where three different people singing at once. (Buffy, Tara, and Sweet?) Certainly Sweet sings about a verse under the other characters, which did kind of drive me crazy in a good way until I could figure out what words and tune he was singing. - ‘I, Don Quixote’ from Man of La Mancha, with Sancho and Quixote singing their themes at once and the two melodies just seem to blend together. I remember my mom and I singing along, each taking a part, while the record was playing. on preview: thanks for the link **anyrose** ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/28 "2005-10-31T20:10:20Z")
next time you’re in a big enough group - try these two together Oh When The Saints and Swing Low Sweet Chariot ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/29 "2005-11-01T06:00:31Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Ever try to sing Rock of Ages (the Hanukkah version) at the same time as Deck the Halls? > you do have to change one note in the last stanza but it works And change the tempo of one, no? I’ve never done this, but I’m trying to “sing” them both in my head, and it sounds interesting… Also, I believe the end of Act I of The Producers copies the West Side Story device mentioned above (just as South Park did). Oh! And there was that Simon and Garfunkel thing where they sang Scarborough Fair along with … another song… don’t remember which one. Also, listen to “Five for One” at this link: [http://www.isound.com/albums/bob\_ricci/735169/not\_a\_christmas\_album](http://www.isound.com/albums/bob_ricci/735169/not_a_christmas_album) ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/30 "2005-11-01T06:50:31Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > The “Confrontation” song in _Les Miserables_ is excellent in this regard - Valjean and Javert take turns being “dominant” but they’re singing different things that are thematically similar. They don’t pre-load it by singing each seperately, though, so you’d best be paying attention. There’s also the famous “One Day More” which is quite nicely done and stirring to boot. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/31 "2005-11-01T07:40:07Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > next time you’re in a big enough group - try these two together > Oh When The Saints > and > Swing Low Sweet Chariot There’s a third song called “I’m gonna sing” that melds with those two. (Or at least, I’ve always sung all three together) ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/32 "2005-11-01T07:51:11Z")
> [@TJdude825](#): > > Oh! And there was that Simon and Garfunkel thing where they sang Scarborough Fair along with … another song… don’t remember which one. _Scarborough Fair_ is traditional, and Paul Simon wrote the counterpoint “Canticle”. Lyrics [here](http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Simon-And-Garfunkel/Scarborough-Fair-Canticle.html). ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/33 "2005-11-01T10:54:15Z")
And there’s one from _Call Me Madam_: “I hear singing…” or whatever it’s called. There are two really, really great double choruses in Gilbert & Sullivan, neither of them Act 1 finales; “When the foeman bares his steel” from _The Pirates of Penzance_ and “Tower warders under orders” from _Yeomen Of the Guard_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/34 "2005-11-01T18:30:32Z")
Another great example is “Quartet” from Chess. Though as someone mentioned my very favorite earlier (“Fuge for Tinhorns”). This is a great musical and dramatic device – whether individuals like the results or not – it works very well in the structures I’ve seen it used. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/35 "2005-11-01T19:05:37Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > I know and love all of the examples provided so far, and am just popping in to mention “Quartet (A Model of Decorum and Tranquility)” from _Chess_. > [@ddgryphon](#): > > Another great example is “Quartet” from Chess. Great minds… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/36 "2005-11-01T20:14:07Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The song from Phantom is “Notes.” I love it! I was beginning to think I was the only one who liked that song. The person who introduced me to phantom hated it. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/37 "2005-11-01T22:33:26Z")
I meant to mention “The Book Report” from _You’re a Good Man Charlie Brown_. Also, just for fun, listen to PDQ Bach’s “The Art Of The Ground Round” to truly appreciate this kind of writing. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/38 "2005-11-02T00:11:06Z")
My favorite example of the is the “Lover’s Quartet” from **Co-ed Prison Sluts**. Although it is heightened by Fluffy tearing the luncheon meat intestines out of the “hamster” while Hamster Man sings “The dog has wasted my hamster now, the agony’s wasted my heart.” Sigh. God, I miss that show. Jack ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/39 "2005-11-02T00:19:34Z")
Peter Gabriel-era Genesis used this structure with **Fountain of Salmacis** , and I’m thinking that Yes did it as well (Siberian Khatru, perhaps?) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617/40 "2005-11-02T00:53:10Z")
One of my favorite moments from _Miss Saigon_ is when Kim and Ellen are both singing over each other about Chris and their relationship with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-musicals-where-two-groups-sing-different-parts-of-the-song-simultaneously/328617.md?page=3)