# In olden days, how common was it for people to enter marriage with literally no clue what sex was? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395 "2023-02-26T13:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/141 "2023-03-09T13:18:02Z")
Right! Slot B in my instruction manual appears with a one-way arrow out, so it must be an exit-only, and not an entrance. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/142 "2023-03-09T13:21:54Z")
As mentioned, one does suppose that back in times of a predominantly agrarian life, simple observation of the livestock would provide a degree of orientation. The disconnect would likely arise once a culture developed around preserving “innocence” or isolating some of the people from the hard facts. Or even assuming a cultural position of teaching _“WE are NOT IN ANY WAY like ANIMALS!!”_ > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > about showing them X-rated movies because she felt it was a good way to teach them about sex. (One of my other friends said, “That’s not even the KIND of sex you want your kids to know about!”) Which suggests the flip side to the thread title question: how many people _nowadays_ arrive at their first sexual relationship expecting that it’s supposed to go like in porn. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/143 "2023-03-09T13:28:51Z")
I don’t think it’s places so much as people. If I had moved in with a boyfriend, the only reason my mother wouldn’t have threatened to write me out of the will/not pay for my wedding was because she had nothing to leave me and couldn’t pay for a wedding if she wanted to. None of my friends lived with anyone of the opposite sex until they got married - at least not as far as their parents knew. This was NYC - but it was a working class, ethnic and Catholic neighborhood up until at least the late 80s/early 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/144 "2023-03-09T16:12:44Z")
I may have posted this before. 1982, my girlfriend and I graduated from college and moved to a small city in NY state, where she did a graduate program and I got a job teaching in a small independent school. Our “outside activities” were mostly music and church, a liberal Episcopal church, but there were limits. We were not married (got married the following year) but we did live together, at a time when that was jusssst beginning to be acceptable, sort of, where we were. We did not hide the fact of our cohabitation. The folks at school were cool about it, so were the people in her grad program, and the music people, and the people at church were generally welcoming. Times were clearly changing! BUT the church put out a new member directory that year, and they listed us separately and without even a cross reference. So there! We were more amused than offended. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/145 "2023-03-09T18:00:50Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Which suggests the flip side to the thread title question: how many people _nowadays_ arrive at their first sexual relationship expecting that it’s supposed to go like in porn. In HS, I met my girlfriend in Physics class. Once we got interested in each other, we spent 3 months studying _The Joy of Sex_ so that we would be properly ready for the schtupping. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/146 "2023-03-09T18:02:37Z")
Did you read She Comes First? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/147 "2023-03-09T20:20:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Tab A should go into slot _A_. Tab P into slot P. > [@eschereal](#): > > In HS, I met my girlfriend in Physics class. Once we got interested in each other, we spent 3 months studying _The Joy of Sex_ so that we would be properly ready for the schtupping. Well, you were in _physics_ together. That puts you way up in the nerdiness scale, you know, _readers_. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/148 "2023-03-09T20:28:53Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > That puts you way up in the nerdiness scale If that is not enough, later we were in Comp Sci together. _And_, we both liked programming the E4000 (though, admiitedly, the alternative was using the ASR to access the school district mainframe, which was not all that pleasant). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/149 "2023-03-09T21:11:29Z")
As a child, I was blessed with a father who left his copy of “Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex: But Were Afraid to Ask” along with his copies of Playboy hidden, but not too well hidden. At age 12 in 1969 it was a real education to discover those. As a result I was better prepared for what was to be than most of my peers. I didn’t begin to put even the most basic partnered stuff into practice until I was 15 but I sure was at least academically aware of the anatomies involved, and that the experience was supposed to be pleasurable for all involved, and that birth control was a MUST. Thanks, Dad!! ---
**Author:** ![knavette57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knavette57/32/3871_2.png) [@knavette57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knavette57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/150 "2023-03-09T21:17:25Z")
My dad had that stuff, and my mom had lots of true romance magazines. However, the latter were rather vague about what occurred, “I fumbled with the light, and we fell into one another’s arms,” then awkward discussion follows, then a few weeks later, more awkward discussion about the pregnancy that resulted from that fall in one another’s arms. I found the Encylopedia Brittainica helpful; it was in my 8th grade library, and spelled it out. Falling Into One Another’s Arms, my eye! I know I know, it often began that way, but imagine being 12, and thinking that was all that needed to happen. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/151 "2023-03-09T22:29:59Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > As a child, I was blessed with a father who left his copy of “Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex: But Were Afraid to Ask” along with his copies of Playboy hidden, but not too well hidden That sounds a lot like my experience, except it was my brother who graduated from college in 1967 and then went into the army immediately afterward. While he was gone, I started looking at some of his reading materials that he left behind, like a book on FORTRAN IV, from which I taught myself programming a few years later. I didn’t have access to a computer until I went to college a few more years later, where my professor was surprised that I already knew FORTRAN. My brother also left behind some Playboy magazines and books like EYAWTKAS:BWATA. As with FORTRAN, I didn’t have the means and opportunity to put my knowledge about sex fully into use until college. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/152 "2023-03-10T00:08:58Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > like a book on FORTRAN IV, from which I taught myself programming You are lucky it was not a book on C\*\*\*L. I had already learned some programming in HS when I picked up and read through that. I had nightmares for years after. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/153 "2023-03-10T00:27:09Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Tab P into slot P. no wonder you all are fumbling around - Tab P into slot V. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/154 "2023-03-10T02:50:11Z")
Not if they’re supposed to be the same letter. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/155 "2023-03-10T07:25:00Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > , I started looking at some of his reading materials that he left behind, like a book on FORTRAN IV, from which I taught myself programming a few years later. Was it one of Dan McCracken’s books by some chance? > **[Daniel D. McCracken](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_D._McCracken)** > > Daniel D. McCracken (July 23, 1930 – July 30, 2011) was a computer scientist in the United States. He was a professor of Computer Sciences at the City College of New York, and the author of over two dozen textbooks on computer programming, with an emphasis on guides to programming in widely used languages such as Fortran and COBOL. His A Guide to Fortran Programming (Wiley, 1961) and its successors were the standard textbooks on that language for over two decades. His books have been translated... In the late '60s it seemed all the language books were his. I got to meet him once when I was in grad school. As for Playboys, My father had some and the much more explicit Penthouse and Playboy’s version of it Oui, but though I appreciated them, they weren’t that much use in learning about sex. ETA: And a thread about sex mentions Fortran. That’s what I love about this place. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/157 "2023-03-10T10:56:53Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Right! Slot B in my instruction manual appears with a one-way arrow out, so it must be an exit-only, and not an entrance. but then again, there is always THAT guy who tries to get a square peg into a round hole … ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/158 "2023-03-10T12:17:24Z")
I have a small collection of sex-related antique books from the last 120 years. If the 1910-ish books are any indication of 1910-ish knowledge, they can be quite revealing. One book is a Boy Scout manual, intended for male teenagers. Sex is never mentioned, only hinted at. Boys are strongly cautioned against “self-pollution,” without any description of what that was. Self-pollution would sap all of a boy’s energy and leave him limp and unable to perform athletic tasks and even daily chores. And everyone would know what he was doing due to the color drained form his cheeks, the limp in his walk, the way he hung his head, etc. Talk about shaming the innocent. Absolutely zero mention of birth control. It was assumed he would instinctively know what to do and what not to do, so why teach it? I also have a “Husband & Wife Marriage Manual” from that era, for newlyweds. It included no pictures or drawings. Since it was written by a husband & wife pair, both doctors, this presumably made it educational, not titillating. It even cautions the reader that if they feel a stirring in the loins while reading, to put the book down for a while until that bad feeling goes away. And don’t be ashamed, folks – this is normal. In the era before medical birth control, the only mention of this topic was a poor effort (because medical knowledge was grossly inadequate about some bodily function details) at the rhythm method. The book repeatedly tells the couple to find the wife’s “free time”, or the time of the month when ovulation was unlikely. Since it could not be determined accurately, this eliminated about 2 weeks of every month where you weren’t supposed to copulate. Few mentions of alternative sexual pleasures; oral sex was only described as “the genital kiss.” The only way I could figure out from the book as to how you determined her free time was to have multiple babies and keep a detailed calendar at the same time. If I am baffled nowadays, think of how the 1910 couple must have felt. I found this book, “Sane Sex Life and Sane Sex Living” in our basement. Inside the front cover was the owner’s name, my uncle, so it was probably his one and only sex book when he got married. Uncle got his nickname from the fact that he always kept rabbits as pets. Perhaps that experience was more informative than the book. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/159 "2023-03-10T23:45:07Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > One book is a Boy Scout manual, intended for male teenagers. Sex is never mentioned, only hinted at. Boys are strongly cautioned against “self-pollution,” without any description of what that was. Self-pollution would sap all of a boy’s energy and leave him limp and unable to perform athletic tasks and even daily chores. And everyone would know what he was doing due to the color drained form his cheeks, the limp in his walk, the way he hung his head, etc. Talk about shaming the innocent. Which is more information (even if bad information) than was in my Boy Scout Handbook from 1963 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/160 "2023-03-11T00:47:03Z")
My girlfriend and I started living together when I started law school. Her mom was clearly less than thrilled but there were no threats of being cut out of the will. A year later, having decided we were well-suited for each other, we got married. It’ll be 33 years this August. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395/161 "2023-03-11T01:50:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > One book is a Boy Scout manual, intended for male teenagers. Sex is never mentioned, only hinted at. Boys are strongly cautioned against “self-pollution,” without any description of what that was. Self-pollution would sap all of a boy’s energy and leave him limp and unable to perform athletic tasks and even daily chores. And everyone would know what he was doing due to the color drained form his cheeks, the limp in his walk, the way he hung his head, etc. Talk about shaming the innocent. You inspired me to seek out old Boy Scout manuals. From their first manual, back in 1911, there is this advice > [@](#): > > Conservation > > In this chapter much has been said of the active measures which a boy should take in order to become strong and well. We should be equally concerned in saving and storing up natural forces we already have. In the body of every boy, who has reached his teens, the Creator of the universe has sown a very important fluid. This fluid is the most wonderful material in all the physical world. Some parts of it find their way into the blood, and through the blood give tone to the muscles, power to the brain, and strength to the nerves. This fluid is the sex fluid. When this fluid appears in a boy’s body, it works a wonderful change in him. His chest deepens, his shoulders broaden, his voice changes, his ideals are changed and enlarged. It gives him the capacity for deep feeling, for rich emotion. Pity the boy, therefore, who has wrong ideas of this important function, because they will lower his ideals of life. These organs actually secrete into the blood material that makes a boy manly, strong, and noble. Any habit which a boy has that causes this fluid to be discharged from the body tends to weaken his strength, to make him less able to resist disease, and often unfortunately fastens upon him habits which later in life he {233} cannot break. Even several years before this fluid appears in the body such habits are harmful to a growing boy. > > To become strong, therefore, one must be pure in thought and clean in habit. This power which I have spoken of must be conserved, because this sex function is so deep and strong that there will come times when temptation to wrong habits will be very powerful. But remember that to yield means to sacrifice strength and power and manliness. > > For boys who desire to know more of this subject we would suggest a splendid book by Dr. Winfield S. Hall, entitled, “From Youth into Manhood.” Every boy in his teens who wants to know the secret of strength, power, and endurance should read this book. > **[Boy Scout Handbook 1911](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm)** Incidentally, the recommended reading - From Youth Into Manhood - can be found online, too. > **[From Youth Into Manhood](https://books.google.com/books?id=ak4t2jlE2R0C&pg=PA1&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1#v=onepage&q&f=false)** Considering it was published in 1909, it’s surprisingly frank about male anatomy, but doesn’t seem to get into sex. But, it’s intended for the younger male, whereas the author references another book he wrote “Reproduction and Sexual Hygiene” for older readers. That book is also online, and basically just relegates sex to a dangerous activity you should seek to minimize. > [@](#): > > We must not lose sight of the fact that the male sexual glands are continuously active, and in this continuous activity get their exercise. This activity develops them and keeps them physically perfect after the onset of the period of puberty. Their activity consists very largely in the formation of an internal secretion, the office of which is to develop in the male the highest possible state of virility. > > Nor must we lose sight of the fact that every procreative act is performed at a sacrifice of some of this vital fluid on the part of the male. A wanton sacrifice of vital fluid either in the act of self abuse or in excessive venery is not justifiable under any consideration; nor may these acts, under any circumstances, be looked upon as sustaining to the gland a relation similar to that which muscular exercise sustains to muscle tissue. > > In the light of these facts every normal man would admit that frequent masturbation or excessive sexual intercourse, in wedlock or out, should certainly not be recommended as a method of developing the sexual apparatus. It then goes on to talk about how horrible it is to fulfill sexual desires through illicit sex (meaning done out of wedlock) or masturbating before recommending the solution to one’s natural sexual desire. > [@](#): > > The young man who holds before his mental vision an ideal of the home he hopes some day to establish—in which a pure wife reigns as queen, sovereign of his life, and gently hovers over a brood of lusty boys and fair girls—cannot for a moment consider as a sane solution of his sexual problem, periodic visits to the house of ill fame or the periodic lapse into illicit intercourse with clandestines; nor can he expect to develop his powers, physically or intellectually to the highest possible degree if he permits himself to contract that habit [masturbation] which, step by step, undermines his development. There is open to the young man only one of the three alternatives mentioned above, i.e., TO LEAD THE “CONTINENT LIFE.” > > The continent life is a goal which every healthy [91]young man should strive to reach. To arrive at a goal that is before us and above us requires sacrifice and brings compensation. The sacrifice takes the form of the exertion of the whole will power of the man and the painstaking observance of those rules of hygiene which make continent living more easily attainable. The compensations of continence are those that come from the assurance that the young man has of his virility, of his worthiness to take the hand of a pure wife in wedlock, of the consciousness of his ability to establish and maintain a home, and to protect this home against all dangers. > **[The Biology, Physiology and Sociology of Reproduction Also Sexual Hygiene...](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/24708/pg24708-images.html#Page_74)** I note that there is precious little education on the mechanics of sex; really, just warnings about doing it too much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-olden-days-how-common-was-it-for-people-to-enter-marriage-with-literally-no-clue-what-sex-was/980395.md?page=9)