# In order to save the world, angel must neuter himself in order to relate to the peons.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 12, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224 "2009-08-12T21:11:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/1 "2009-08-12T21:11:58Z")
> **[Legion's Red Band Angel War Trailer Descends Upon Humanity](https://gizmodo.com/legions-red-band-angel-war-trailer-descends-upon-humani-5336080)**
>
> The unholy battle between humans and angels has started, with the redband Legion trailer. In which gun-carrying angel Paul Bettany chops off his wings, to protect an unborn savior. Looks like a boil-popping good time.
Is anyone besides me sick of this theme?
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/2 "2009-08-12T21:16:03Z")
Actually, I can’t think of another movie where an angel neuters himself for any reason. I know they didn’t have sex organs in **Dogma** , but they were created that way.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/3 "2009-08-20T15:25:28Z")
> [@elfkin477](#):
>
> Actually, I can’t think of another movie where an angel neuters himself for any reason. I know they didn’t have sex organs in **Dogma** , but they were created that way.
Not specifically an angel, but Hollywood loves the plot where the hero can prove he’s a hero even stripped of his powers.
I saw the preview and we’re supposed to believe that a neutered angel and like a dozen people can fight hordes of millions of angels.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/4 "2009-08-20T15:47:19Z")
Why is the angel Gabriel always such a dick in every movie?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/5 "2009-08-20T15:54:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Why is the angel Gabriel always such a dick in every movie?
Because he’s the Angel of Death popularly. People don’t like Death so they think that Gabriel is evil.
My favorite portrayal of Gabriel is by Tilda Swinton in Constantine. Damn Tilda Swinton is super hot. 😉 I met her once, she’s a fucking amazon.
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### Author:  [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/6 "2009-08-20T16:03:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Why is the angel Gabriel always such a dick in every movie?
Kevin Durand seems to be cast as The Dick a lot, but at least he’s hot.
So … he’s not neutered right?
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### Author:  [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/7 "2009-08-20T16:05:11Z")
As always TVtropes has a page detailing this phenomenon, along with links to related cliches. They call it [Brought Down To Normal.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BroughtDownToNormal)The examples section is lengthy but hardly exhaustive. This is an extremely common trope with superheros. The comics section alone could probably fill out an entire page all by itself.
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### Author:  [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/8 "2009-08-20T16:18:55Z")
> [@elfkin477](#):
>
> Actually, I can’t think of another movie where an angel neuters himself for any reason. I know they didn’t have sex organs in **Dogma** , but they were created that way.
The linked bit talks about Bettany’s character cutting off his wings, not neutering himself, exactly. Didn’t that also happen in _Dogma_? Something about being able to enter the cathedral?
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### Author:  [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/9 "2009-08-20T16:34:53Z")
> [@Jihi](#):
>
> As always TVtropes has a page detailing this phenomenon, along with links to related cliches. They call it [Brought Down To Normal.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BroughtDownToNormal)The examples section is lengthy but hardly exhaustive. This is an extremely common trope with superheros. The comics section alone could probably fill out an entire page all by itself.
My self-control must be expanding. I only spent 15 minutes on TV Tropes this time. Go me!
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/10 "2009-08-20T19:22:56Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#):
>
> The linked bit talks about Bettany’s character cutting off his wings, not neutering himself, exactly. Didn’t that also happen in _Dogma_? Something about being able to enter the cathedral?
In _Dogma_, the forgiveness loophole only applied to mortals, so the angels had to become human in order to take advantage of it.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/11 "2009-08-20T19:40:08Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> Because he’s the Angel of Death popularly. People don’t like Death so they think that Gabriel is evil.
>
> My favorite portrayal of Gabriel is by Tilda Swinton in Constantine. Damn Tilda Swinton is super hot. 😉 I met her once, she’s a fucking amazon.
Not Christopher Walken?
I couldn’t figure out why Damon’s character in Dogma was named after the Norse god Loki if he was supposed to be the Angel O’ Death.
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### Author:  [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/12 "2009-08-20T20:01:03Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> Because he’s the Angel of Death popularly. People don’t like Death so they think that Gabriel is evil.
😕 Gabriel is now the Angel of Death? Which religious tradition does that come from?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/13 "2009-08-20T20:05:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Because he’s the Angel of Death popularly. People don’t like Death so they think that Gabriel is evil.
Angel of Death? Gabriel is traditionally the chief of the herald angels. He’s the one who told Mary that God was going to knock her up, and he’s traditionally considered to be the one who announced Jesus’ birth to the shepherds. I’ve never seen any indication in the Bible or the surrounding folklore that he has anything to do with death-- If anything, Michael (a warrior angel) would be closer to that.
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### Author:  [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/14 "2009-08-20T22:14:25Z")
In Jewish folklore, Samael is the angel of death.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/15 "2009-08-20T22:52:36Z")
I’m really not too sure what the movie is about, but I do know that I will be seeing it.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2009, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/16 "2009-08-21T09:48:53Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#):
>
> The linked bit talks about Bettany’s character cutting off his wings, not neutering himself, exactly. Didn’t that also happen in _Dogma_?
Also, something of the sort happens to Lucifer in the (untold) leadup to the eponymous Sandman spin-off comic.
HE gets them back
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/17 "2009-08-21T10:06:32Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#):
>
> 😕 Gabriel is now the Angel of Death? Which religious tradition does that come from?
I don’t know but I have seen several movies where Gabriel is called the Angel of Death. I don’t know where it comes from but it seems to be pretty common in B movies.
> **[Angel of Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_death)**
>
> Angel of Death may refer to:
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### Author:  [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/18 "2009-08-21T11:54:37Z")
In the wonderfully campy **Van Helsing** Gabriel is played by Hugh Jackman.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/19 "2009-08-21T12:02:26Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#):
>
> In the wonderfully campy **Van Helsing** Gabriel is played by Hugh Jackman.
I thought Hugh Jackman played Van Helsing.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-order-to-save-the-world-angel-must-neuter-himself-in-order-to-relate-to-the-peons/506224/20 "2009-08-21T12:15:31Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> I thought Hugh Jackman played Van Helsing.
For the movie, they changed Van Helsing’s first name from Abraham to Gabriel and make various references to the Archangel. He’s still a dick.
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