# "In perpetuity throughout the universe" - does it have a distinct legal meaning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708 "2010-10-10T19:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/1 "2010-10-10T19:09:05Z")
Occasionally, you will see “legalese” boilerplate that includes a statement that the contract, or a clause of the contract, applies “in perpetuity throughout the universe”, or “throughout the universe, in perpetuity”, or something substantially similiar. Does this have a specific legal meaning that goes beyond “always and everywhere”, or “with no exceptions”, or simply not qualifying the original statement with a limiting clause like “in New York up till 2050.”? Is there any legal theory that would say that a contract that is signed that is not specifically stated to be valid “in perpetuity throughout the universe” is void on the Moon, or in deep space? Defendant’s attorney: “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I leave you with this. Regardless of whether or not you feel the defendant signed a contract for consideration in which he promised to refrain from whirlygigging, and then whirlygigged, remember that the contract stated that the defendant stated that the defendant ‘did hereby promise to refrain from whirlygigging’ period, and did NOT state that the promise applied in perpetuity throughout the universe. Since the witnesses to the alleged post-contractual whirlygigging all testified that said whirlygigging occured in Jovian orbit, you should find for the defendant since the aforementioned contract was void beyond Earth’s atmosphere since it did not state that it was valid throughout the universe.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/2 "2010-10-10T19:15:31Z")
I have to admit I’ve never noticed a statement like that. Can you point me to any examples? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/3 "2010-10-10T19:19:33Z")
Coming right up [http://www.internationalmovietrailerfestival.com/?p=rules](http://www.internationalmovietrailerfestival.com/?p=rules) “You represent and warrant that all materials included in your submission shall be owned by you or lawfully licensed to you for the purposes intended under this agreement and that no claim shall be made against IMTF relating to same by any person or entity now and in perpetuity throughout the Universe.” other references: > **[CenTrak | Accurate Hospital Real-Time Location System Tracking Systems](https://centrak.com/)** > > It’s More Than a Hospital Tracking System! CenTrak Provides Actionable Intelligence Across Hospital Enterprises. Contact Us or Request a Demo to Learn More. [http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/Page&c=FlexContent&cid=1272762251793](http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/Page&c=FlexContent&cid=1272762251793) [http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Doing%20Business%20with%20Boy%20Scouts%20of%20America/SellingDirectlyToASingleCouncil/LicenseRequest.aspx](http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Doing%20Business%20with%20Boy%20Scouts%20of%20America/SellingDirectlyToASingleCouncil/LicenseRequest.aspx) [http://www.boondockstore.com/goldcross/](http://www.boondockstore.com/goldcross/) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/4 "2010-10-10T19:19:44Z")
I’ve seen it on model releases. I always found it a pretty amusing turn of phrase. On the other hand, if I ever need to license some images on Mars, I know I’m covered. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/5 "2010-10-10T19:55:52Z")
I chuckled when I saw that phrase in a contract I recently received. I, too, wondered if it meant extra-terrestrial abodes. I suppose one could claim, for example, that a satellite in earth orbit is not really within any one country and therefore not subject to the laws of those countries. Beaming data (say, copyrighted material) to that satellite could remove it from earthly bounds, legally speaking. Probably not a very defensible position, but the “throughout the universe” clause immediately nullifies it. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/6 "2010-10-10T20:04:38Z")
I don’t think there’s any special legal meaning other than being a very clear way to specify that there are no limits. In the world of intellectual property, geographical and time limitations are a big deal - just look at the regions built into DVD technology, or the fact that iTunes has a different selection of songs for each country. As for other planets… it’s not impossible that it will be relevant in the near future. The founder of SpaceX (a for-profit company even) thinks he’ll make it to Mars in the 2020’s. Now, I think he’s full of it regarding 2020. but I think we’ll get there eventually. Disney is still fighting to protect IP that’s 80 years old (Mickey Mouse). With that time frame in mind, it’s certainly plausible that today’s contracts need to consider interplanetary licensing. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/7 "2010-10-10T20:40:56Z")
Here’s an article about this. > **[Lawyerese Goes Galactic as Contracts Try to Master the Universe - WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB125658217507308619)** > > From Stage to Pickle Shop, These Terms Cover All Rights for All Time in All Worlds Some think it’s just a lazy way to write a contract without having to explicitly list all the possibilities. Others think it’s a prudent way to cover all future possibilities - Mars rights or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/8 "2010-10-10T21:27:10Z")
> [@robert\_andrews](#): > > Coming right up Well as I said, I’ve never noticed this before. I have to wonder if it has any legal validity. Does any legal body on Earth have jurisdiction over any extra-solar entities? As far as I know, the lizard people of Rigel VII have never signed the Berne Convention. So why should they be bound by our copyright law? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/9 "2010-10-10T22:09:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have to wonder if it has any legal validity. Does any legal body on Earth have jurisdiction over any extra-solar entities? As far as I know, the lizard people of Rigel VII have never signed the Berne Convention. So why should they be bound by our copyright law? But you’ll still be sued in the jurisdiction where you accepted the contract. So if the guys on Rigel VII are re-broadcasting copyrighted games of the NFL, they’ll still be sued in the good old United States. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/10 "2010-10-10T22:45:57Z")
But Rigellian law clearly states that all copyrights end at a distance of one light-year from their point of broadcast. Any transmissions received past that point are legally considered a natural resource that may be copied and resold by anyone. So the NFL surrendered its copyright by broadcasting its transmissions over a medium that sent its signals past that range. If they had wanted to retain their copyright they should have broadcast using short-range transmissions like any Rigellian copyright holder would. This was all clearly established by the Glorgg Accord. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/11 "2010-10-11T15:44:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If they had wanted to retain their copyright they should have broadcast using short-range transmissions like any Rigellian copyright holder would. This was all clearly established by the Glorgg Accord. That’s right. Ignorance of the law is no defense. ---
**Author:** ![HeadNinja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b4bc9f/32.png) [@HeadNinja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeadNinja)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-perpetuity-throughout-the-universe-does-it-have-a-distinct-legal-meaning/556708/12 "2010-10-12T20:14:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This was all clearly established by the Glorgg Accord. Don’t blame me, I voted for Plorpp.