# In practical terms, has signing credit card receipts ever done anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 26, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655 "2009-05-26T06:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/21 "2009-05-26T23:05:02Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > For example if I “Markxxx” have a credit card and it has my name embossed on the card and I signed it and I give my card to “Jane Doe,” and she uses it and the merchant clearly sees Jane is not Markxxx, if he takes the card and I don’t dispute it, there is no problem. It only becomes an issue if I say “No, that’s wrong.” I used to work at the credit card bank processing chargebacks. What Markxxx says is the gist of it. You can sign Capt Crunch on your charge receipts all you want - it’s only a problem if you dispute the charge with your bank. Now, the merchant is being a knucklehead for accepting that signature, because you could dispute it and you may win. Regarding the recent $25 cut-off for signatures - the basis for this is that it costs the bank more than $25 to process a dispute. So, instead they would just write off that amount. The banks are putting themselves at risk by doing this, for sure (everyone could start disputing any charge under $25). ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/22 "2009-05-26T23:26:18Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > I would suggest you read the employees comments on [Customer’s Suck](http://www.customerssuck.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=7) to see how much of a problem not signing your card is. Hehe, interesting. Any specific thread I should be looking at? ---
**Author:** ![abby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@abby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abby)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/23 "2009-05-27T08:14:33Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I would hope that they’re not pushing such systems too much because they wouldn’t actually work to verify much of anything. > > A PIN only verifies that the person with the number also has the PIN. They could have gotten it because they are the actual owner, or because they charged the card for something, or because someone who charged the card for something didn’t have good security practices on their website, or in several other ways. Yah, great point, I should have clarified. As you implied, part of the VbV and SC systems are that the PIN is entered in to the **bank’s** website for verification (even if the CC transaction is processed by a third party). This would make the process of “rebills” (where the customer is billed the same each month for a subscription, a foundation of the adult industry online) not work so well - the customer has to initiate the rebill, and may choose not to. The bank theoretically guarentees that any CC transaction submitted with a PIN cannot be charged back, cos the bank requires customers to keep their PIN secret. So, good for merchants, and good for everyone, but as there is no real incentive for the Visa and MC schemes to make it happen, very few people use it. And to work effectively, it needs to reach critical mass. ---
**Author:** ![abby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@abby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abby)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/24 "2009-05-27T08:19:51Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > It does for the seller & the credit card company: it provides some proof that it was you that made the purchase & agreed to pay for it. > > Paper receipts with your signature are some proof; electronic signatures are also some proof; phone/mail order/internet purchases using the CCV are also some proof. (And they have some proof in that the item was shipped to your address – shipping an online purchase to a different address often requires additional verification.) But spare a thought for your friendly internet merchant selling **access to a service** , not the **shipping of a good**. No shipping address. Supplying the bank with the IP address of the person charging back is nice, but they don’t really care (perhaps for good reason, apparently, it’s not that hard to spoof your IP anyway, and if you wre doing something fraudulent, that’s prolly something you’d do, I guess). Ther merchant is fined by the bank (~$25US), _and_ has to refund the money (or rather, the refund is process automatically - you cannot appeal it). ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/25 "2009-05-27T10:40:16Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I think it’s funny the way merchants always say “You don’t pay if you’re card is lost or stolen.” I had lost my wallet and called in the card as lost within 15 minutes. I had charges on that card made days and days after to the tune of $2,000.00. > > So I had to fill out a police report and print out a signed statement (I had to have it notarized), that I didn’t make the charges. > > Then Citibank wrote off the $2,000.00 and immediately raised by interest rate from 1.9% to 23%. So much for protection huh? LOL Well while we’re talking anecdotes - we had a card stolen from out (locked) mailbox. It was used to the tune of around $3,500 before we even knew it was gone (so no report made). The bank contacted us to tell us it was stolen, made the police report themselves, fully refunded the money and upgraded me from a gold account to a platinum account as “compensation”. Yes I am very happy with the bank and it is still my primary card four years later. I put around $18k a year through the card. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/26 "2009-05-27T13:31:08Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Hehe, interesting. Any specific thread I should be looking at? Not at this time. They show up often on the site, but I haven’t read one on that topic today. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/27 "2009-05-29T02:19:32Z")
> [@abby](#): > > Ther merchant is fined by the bank (~$25US), _and_ has to refund the money (or rather, the refund is process automatically - you cannot appeal it). I don’t know if they do things differently down under, but here in the US the merchant most certainly has the right to appeal a dispute that was resolved in the customer’s favor. The final arbiter will be the card association (Visa, MasterCard etc). ---
**Author:** ![abby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@abby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/28 "2009-05-29T09:21:32Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > I don’t know if they do things differently down under, but here in the US the merchant most certainly has the right to appeal a dispute that was resolved in the customer’s favor. The final arbiter will be the card association (Visa, MasterCard etc). Well, that’s the point: the only valid appeal is to provide the chit the customer signed at the time of purchase, and cos the card was not present at the time of transaction (and nor was the customer), there _is_ no signed chit. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655/29 "2009-05-29T10:07:23Z")
I realize that it’s a different process for each business, but I work in hotels. Just on my overnight shift tonight (11 pm until 7 am eastern,) I’ve had to verify three different credit cards. In one case, Mrs. John Doe presented her husband’s credit card. Since Jane was obviously not John Doe, I asked that he please sign the chit after he showed me his photo ID, in order to prevent fraud. (He wasn’t happy, but complied. Otherwise, I’d have had to ask for some other form of payment.) In another case, there was no signature on the credit card: I need to match the ID with the name and signature. And in the third case, a gentleman presented a company credit card, along with a business card. However, the gentleman checking into the hotel wasn’t the cardholder, so I had to have verification that he was authorized to use the credit card. 99% of the time, cardholders are happy that I verify that the user is authorized for the card. I always present it as “I’m doing this to protect you,” even though I’m really saving myself a bunch of time, effort, and paperwork on disputing a chargeback. Finally, I know how easy it really would be to use a card fraudulently. Most clerks don’t even check. I very regularly go to Sam’s Club or the grocery store for my parents, usually using Mom’s Sam’s card or grocery loyalty card, and Mom’s or Dad’s debit card. It’s pretty obvious that my face matches neither photo, but no one has ever questioned me on this. If I were a sketchy person, I could certainly use their accounts for internet gambling or trips to Rio… I’m always glad when someone checks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-practical-terms-has-signing-credit-card-receipts-ever-done-anything/497655.md?page=1)