Imagine just the east-west traffic in the diagram on libwen’s link, but with regular (non-Michigan) left turn lanes.
Eastbound traffic gets all green lights, left turns and straight ahead. After 30 seconds or so, the turn arrow goes to amber and then red, but the straight ahead lanes stay green. Then the westbound green lights come on (except for the turn lane), and you’ve got traffic going straight through the intersection both ways, for 90 seconds or so. Then the westbound lights change, and the eastbound turn lane gets the green arrow. After another 30 seconds, all the westbound lights go red and then repeat the pattern for north-south traffic.
(I hope that description makes sense. I’m trying to figure out a way to draw it with characters and colors.)
In two-and-a-half minutes, the turn lanes each get 30 seconds of green and straight ahead traffic gets 2 minutes.
Down here in SW Florida, we’re expeirmenting with elevated left turns. There are two intersections (major roads leading to the beaches, of course) that are scheduled to get flyovers, as they’re called. But these are not you’re regular, run-of -the-mill overpass. These are only for the left turn lane. So imagine you’re approaching the intersection intending to turn left. You get into the left turn lane and instead of slowing down for the light, you keep going and hit this ramp that goes up and to the left over the intersection then down onto the left lane of the other major road. I have mixed feelings about this design since it just means that beach traffic will back up at the downstream choke points faster. I have to get to a meeing but I’ll try to get a link to a diagram when I get back.
And here I thought all those fookin’ STOOPID left turns all over town were just the fault of small-town yooper road planners. Now I find out they’re the fault of stoopid troll road planners. I hate those things.
I guess I could see in places where they have actual traffic that they might work well. However, up here in The Middle of Nowhere, traffic is not typically a problem. And I have to tell you, coming to a completely empty intersection in the middle of the day and having to do that whole “turn right then speed across two lanes and get in the left turn lane and turn left then sit at the light which has inevitably turned red again” thing gets mighty old.
I’ve lived in Michigan forever, and I never realized that they don’t have these other places. I haven’t done much out of state driving. It seems like the Michi-lefts have been popping up in Mid-Michigan with more frequency over the last few years. Whenever a hightraffic road is redone, a Michi-left is typically part of the renovation.
This only in LA? This happens all over Australia. Some intersections have no turn arrows. There is one where I turn off the highway onto my street, which has turn arrows, but not always lit. The cycle is: *green + green arrow - yellow - red - green (no arrow) - yellow -red *. The green light with the arrow is pretty brief, so usually I get the longer, arrowless one. I pull out into the middle of the intersection and wait until there is a gap in the traffic (rare because it’s one of Sydney’s major highways and also there is opposing traffic turning across me in the opposite direction and they block my view - I HATE SUVs) or until the light turns yellow or red, then I floor it outta there.
Normally, because Sydney drivers are red-running arseholes, that light is well and truly red by the time I get to move, because I’ve had to wait for oncoming traffic to go past and traffic lights don’t testify in court. Now the thing with all this is that driving through the red is LEGAL and I’m sure it is in the US too. But there is a caveat to this - you must be out in the middle of the intersection already. That is, at minimum your front wheels must be over the “stop line”. If you are behind the stop line then a red light is a red light is a red light and you’ll need to wait for the next cycle ( though Sydney drivers take liberties with this), but if you’re over it, the fact that the traffic light is physically in front of you doesn’t mean anything. You are legally past that traffic light because you’re past the line, and the light’s aspect is no longer binding on you. This is sensible when you think about it: you can’t be expected to reverse back behind the line when the light flips red, and similarly you can’t stay there in the middle of the intersection. It sounds a bit hairy if you’re not used to it, but in practice there is plenty of time to calmly drive off before the cross traffic starts flowing. In a wide enough intersection, two or three cars can legally make it through (this means about six in Sydney ).
I’m generally against oddball traffic designs such as this because, while the advantage to traffic flow may exist, it is quite often negated by the “WTF? factor” it creates for out-of-state drivers.
For example, here in Virginia (I’m sure this is the case in other states, but none that I’ve seen), it is relatively common to have to change lanes in order to go straight. You’ll be cruisin’ along in the right-hand lane, get to a stoplight, and notice all of a sudden that the lane has become Right Turn Only. Once in a while there’ll be a curved painted arrow or a sign a few yards back to warn you of this, but that’s the exception rather than the rule, at least here in Roanoke. For the most part, you just have to know the intersection. That’s fine for those of us who live here; you get a feel for it fairly quickly; but if I had a nickel for every near-accident I’ve seen caused by out-of-state drivers suddenly darting into the other lane when they realize what’s happened, I’d be rich man…and if I had a dollar for every actual accident I’d seen this cause, I’d have about the same amount.
The Michigan Left sounds like it’d have close to the same effect. Guy in left lane figures he’ll turn left, notices that he can’t, attempts to whip into right lane, causes accident. Or: guy in left lane figures he’ll turn left, completely misses that he can’t, attempts to turn left, gets smacked by oncoming traffic. Maybe I’m wrong – I don’t live in MI – but I can easily see that happening frequently.
Well, being from the Pittsburgh area (and trying my damndest to introduce the Pittsburgh left to Morgantown) and having been to Michigan 2 months ago (and likely going again in 5 weeks…Kuhnhenn and Dragonmead good!), you’re probably right that the Pittsburgh left is really one-of-a-kind!
I admit that was one of the oddest things about getting used to the Michigan left. There certainly are more divided roads up there (otherwise, the whole system wouldn’t work)…though I’d probably rather have known about it before I was up by the GM Tech Center in Warren on a Friday nite!
The other Michigan driving eccentricity was the flashing red…hopefully, someone will explain that one!!
I live in Wisconsin now, but used to live in the Detroit area. There’s a left turn here that reminds me so much of a certain left turn off of Woodward that I always almost turn left on red.
One thing nice about the Michigan left is that if you don’t know which way you want to turn at an intersection you can stay in the right lane and be safe no matter which way you want to go. Some roads you need to know way in advance because no one in Michigan will give anyone a break on a lane change.
That isn’t so odd (well, not too odd). In a lot of states, after a certain time of night, when traffic has become sparse, certain traffic lights will go from green-amber-red to flashing amber in one direction (meaning Caution) and flashing red in the cross direction (meaning Stop). Michigan simply takes that practice one step further. On various intersections, one lane (typically the left lane) will have a flashing red light while the adjacent lanes have a green. This means that one is allowed to use that lane to turn left, but only after coming to a complete stop, as if it was a Stop sign.
Thus, a street with three lanes moving in one direction might have to come to a stop at a red light. When the light changes, the two right lanes might get a green light while the left lane gets a flashing red. This means that it is legal to turn left at that point, but each car must move up to the light and stop before beginning the turn. (Typically, the flashing red will actually be in the shape of an arrow.) When the green light is near the end of its cycle, the oncoming traffic will get a full red (no flashing) and the left lane will change to a green arrow, indicating that that lane has the right to proceed without stopping because all the other traffic should be stopped. (The solid green and flashing red might occur in the reverse sequence, as well, depending on the timing of the light.)
Basically, any flashing red light should be treatedas a Stop sign, with a complete halt after which one may proceed when the traffic has cleared. Michigan simply extends that practice to normal traffic cycles instead of relegating it to late night deserted intersections. (I agree that it is not intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Having grown up with it, I never gave it a thought until I moved out of state and began running into people who had visited Michigan and were puzzled by it.)
One thing that light does is establish culpability in the case of an accident. In Ohio, when the green arrow goes off for left turns, the green light often stays on, meaning that you have the right to proceed into the intersection, either to go straight or to turn. If you choose to turn and are hit by an oncoming car, you get to argue whether they were going too fast or you were turning without waiting for oncoming traffic. In Michigan, if you turn while the arrow is flashing red, you are clearly at fault because you failed to halt and wait for them. (I am not claiming that this is a superior method of traffic control, only noting the way in which this adds weight to various claims in an accident.)
Say you’re heading west on the A246 (the main road that comes in from the right of the map), and you want to turn right, that is to say north, onto the A25. (We’re in England, remember, so you’re driving on the left). You can’t do that at the place where you’d think you can, instead you have to continue to the next junction, then do a U-turn, and double back to the turning you want. On the map it just kind of looks like a roundabout, but it looks much weirder than that on the ground.
I learned to drive in LA and never saw an arrow ANYWHERE. They desperately need them, but there wasn’t one for miles around where I lived.
It’s the same everywhere I’ve driven – if you’re in the intersection when the light turns red, you need to get out of it. The difference is that when I was in LA it was (I’m assuming it still is) illegal to pull into an intersection on a red and turn, it was common practice anyway, otherwise only one car would get through per light, and it would take an eternity to make a left turn. There were few opportunities to turn left while the light was still green; too much damn traffic!
A few arrow lights would solve this nicely, though I suspect the implementation phase would be pure hell.
No, I’d say most people do this. I do. Everyone I know personally does. But the population is large enough that subtracting “most people” still leaves a load o’ dumbasses ready and raring to do something stupid…and it only takes one for a smash-up.
Well, basically the Pittsburgh Left would be nullified by the Michigan Left…
Anyway, picture that you’re on a 2 lane road sitting at a 4-way intersection.
You’re watching the light like you’re a drag racer. The secret to the Pittsburgh Left is to gun it the split second the light turns green, and take the right-of-way over the person in the opposite lane who may well intend to go straight. Basically, it’s something that’s not official around here in the same way as the Michigan Left, but rather more of a de facto law (and I’ve seen worse ideas, since a single left turn can result in only one car going during an entire green light.)
I’ve come across a few similar junctions to that, although I can’t remember where. It never occured to me that they’re essentially doing the same thing as a Michigan turn. I suspect it’s a cheap option, when it’s decided that having traffic turn right across a major road is too dangerous, that avoids having to build a full junction or roundabout.
Okay, I’ve done that when there is a big intersection and the people opposite me seem to be asleep (maybe they are from Pittsburgh and I never realized it). There was a road near my house in Ohio that was pretty bad for that. But I always attributed it to piss-poor road/intersection design, which does seem to happen an awful lot in Pittsburgh (my brother and his family live in Moon Township). I recall on my very first trip to do recruiting at Carnegie Mellon being terrified as a city bus came at me the wrong way down a one way street. What a whacky place!
I think that jug handles and the Michigan Left are exactly the same thing. Jug handles abound in New Jersey (at least, the northern part): I’ve never been to Michigan, but almost all of my family lives in Jersey, and I’ve done a lot of driving up there. Turning right in order to make a left was a little weird the first couple times, but I found it pretty easy to get used to. I’ve never seen them outside of NJ (and didn’t know they existed anywhere else until this thread), but I don’t think twice about them anymore.
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