# In Praise of the Obamessiah, and other developments of the Sally Yates testimony **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179 "2017-05-09T03:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/161 "2017-05-15T17:37:18Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > By wasting campaign funds and efforts to hold rallies in states that there was no question she would take instead of campaigning in states that she actually needed to work to win. She made multiple stops in safe areas like NY and CA, and was the first candidate since 1972 to not even bother showing up to Wisconsin (a supposedly blue state she lost). She chose to lose the actual election to boost her popular vote margin, and her supporters seem unable to explain why that’s a good trade-off. > > And no, the actual election mechanism explicitly spelled out in the constitution, in use for centuries, and talked about a lot in an election less than two decades ago is not a ‘technicality’ that she somehow overlooked. She still got 3 million more votes than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/162 "2017-05-15T18:13:31Z")
Maybe we need to overhaul the Electoral College. We don’t need to protect slave states anymore, and then there’s the question about those states that have more cows and Senators than people. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/163 "2017-05-15T18:58:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sure, Hillary is an amateur, neither her nor anybody on her staff could possibly expect a question about Flint’s lead water problem if Donna B. hadn’t given them a sooper-seekrit clue. Uh-huh. Sure. Hugh Betcha! You do realize that is not the only question that we have proof of her receiving, right? And if we can interpolate all the shit that Trump has going on with Putin based on suspicious shit but no hard evidence, why can’t we assume we didn’t uncover every last bit of cheating she engaged in based on hard evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/164 "2017-05-15T19:19:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK that would be a long game I admit. I just think you are gorging on hillary hatred hyperbole and burning up your credibility to comment on things. Gorging on Hillary hatred? She lost to a bobblehead and her dismissive argument against nominating Bernie was that he wasn’t electable and she was a virtual guarantee. Of course I hate her? Why don’t you? You either liked Hillary in which case you supported a shitty candidate or you got suckered into voting for her in the primary because she (and the entire Democratic establishment) told you that she could beat trump and Bernie couldn’t. Fuck Hillary and the entire Democratic establishment. > [@](#): > > Check the “volume” of your posts, vs the content. I think quality is subjective but I don’t think quantity detract from quality. AFAICT, most people who are pissed off at me are pissed off at me for not being liberal enough. > [@](#): > > I’m glad you have woken up, but Trump has never hidden or been good at hiding anything about himself for this whole cycle. It’s not credible that those concerned before you have become (This week?) were alarmists or are “retarded.” I haven’t “woken up” I have encountered new facts. You predicted that something like this would happen and good for you but it was just a guess. I suspect my opinion will continue to shift as different facts emerge. I suspect others will simply try to work whatever facts may come into their pre-existing opinions. > [@](#): > > Nobody said anything was “the reason” for 2016. They are saying they have had their eyes open for a year now, unlike yourself apparently. To not see any patterns in the public record so far (of corruption and abuse, most probably criminal), is not credible for a thinking person. And to focus on clinton, in some kind of finger wagging exercise constantly is like lighting a fire under your already spindly and dry intellectual credibility. Wait are you STILL trying to imply that the election was illegitimate somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/165 "2017-05-15T19:24:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You said there wasn’t disinformation. There’s some right there. > > Did it affect the election? I don’t know. Maybe. > What a stupid thing to write. > > Fake news and disinformation isn’t generally spread through legitimate news organizations because they’re not that easily fooled. It’s spread through fake news sites that are linked to on Facebook, Twitter and the like, or through openly phony news sources like Infowars and the National Enquirer. The “Clinton is brain damaged” story was well covered on Breitbart. And the people who watch breibart were on the fence until then? > [@](#): > > Low information voters can be fooled by Facebook links to sketchy websites. The Russians aren’t dumb enough to call up CNN and say “Comrade, we have a scoop for you about a pizza pedophilia ring.” They fill the internet with this crap, use bots, flood commentary sections. IIRC a lot of the “The photos that the Hillary Campaign DO NOT want you to see” clickbait was mostly coming out of a small town in Macedonia. > [@](#): > > Then you weren’t paying attention. > > You wanted examples of fake news that likely originated in Russia, there’s three. You were wrong. “likely”? We have PROOF that Hillary cheated during the primary and you want us to go with Russia “likely” did some shit? And who give a guck if Russia “likely” did some shit? Karl Rove probably does that much ever fucking Tuesday. You don’t need a world super power to spread bullshit to an audience that is actively looking for that bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/166 "2017-05-15T19:27:32Z")
[quote=“drad\_dog, post:142, topic:786179”] [https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+home+sale+florida+russian&oq=trump+home+sale+florida+russian&aqs=chrome..69i57.25655j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=rybolovlev+trump+plane](https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+home+sale+florida+russian&oq=trump+home+sale+florida+russian&aqs=chrome..69i57.25655j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=rybolovlev+trump+plane) The articles coming up in the search seem to be mainly from March 2017. But Rachel maddow covered this stuff months before that. (You know, that retard with the vagina.) [quote] Cite. I would never have called Rachel Maddow a retard on anything other than guns. She is partisan as hell but she isn’t retarded. > [@](#): > > So basically you tend to call people retarded because they figured something out before you did. I understand but it’s not a path to wisdom. Leaping to conclusions that are not supported by the facts is not wisdom. Even if you turnout to be right (which you haven’t yet), its still not wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/167 "2017-05-15T19:28:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Gorging on Hillary hatred? She lost to a bobblehead and her dismissive argument against nominating Bernie was that he wasn’t electable and she was a virtual guarantee. Of course I hate her? Why don’t you? What’s the point of hating Hillary? She’s very flawed like many other people. Nonetheless she worked very hard and did what she thought was best to win, but made too many mistakes and she lost. I put a lot of the blame for the loss on her, but I don’t hate her any more than I hate any other flawed person who tried to defeat someone much, much worse. This kind of hatred says a lot more about you than it does about Hillary. It’s also bad for your health. Your hatred comes through in your posts, just like, for example, **adaher** ’s (an otherwise often reasonable poster) personal hatred for Obama shined through his posts. That kind of hatred is almost always unreasonable, and always personally harmful to the one who hates. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/168 "2017-05-15T19:30:29Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > And those emails show no evidence of cheating. So I’ll ask for the 5th time. What do YOU call it when you get debate questions before the debate? Would you feel the same way if Trump had gotten debate questions before a debate with Hillary? > [@](#): > > Good thing that didn’t happen, then. Facts are stubborn things. We have proof, not merely evidence but proof of the DNC conspiring to undermine Bernie’s campaign. Sure, they may have just sat on their hands after all that conspiring but they did conspire. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/169 "2017-05-15T19:33:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > One. > > Two. > > Three. > > Four. > > Five. > > Six. > > Seven. > > Eight. > > Nine. > > Ten. > > Ten posts in a row. > > Jesus Christ, dude. _Learn how to fucking multi-quote!_ Meh. My old phone wouldn’t let me do it. But after thinking about it, I don’t see how reading all of them in one post makes it any easier or clearer to read than using individual posts. Can you explain how putting ten responses to ten different posters on several different trains of thought would make my posts better or clearer? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/170 "2017-05-15T19:47:51Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > This is false. I am the OP. I never once mentioned Hillary, except to you, [here,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20195086&postcount=48) pointing out that this is not actually a thread about Hillary. Reading what I said more closely. I should have said that “this was in response to a post responding to the OP” not “a response to a post by the OP.” Buddha David posted: “Hillary won 3,000,000 popular votes _more_ than Trump. That’s not a crushing, that’s a dominant performance which lost on a cheap, outdated technicality.” That was in post 7 by Buddha David. > [@](#): > > I have also never made a post that makes fun of the fact that the Russian probe is about hacks that revealed embarrassing facts about Hillary - largely because I don’t believe that. That was Great White Dope and despite all his flaws, I think he is right about this. > [@](#): > > 1. The Russian hack is an embarrassment to all Americans Nah, mostly just Hillary. > [@](#): > > 1. The Russian hack is a devastating assault upon the American Electoral system which is the bedrock of our success as a nation. How about truth. Isn’t truth and a better informed electorate a bedrock of our electoral system? > [@](#): > > 1. The Russian hack was carried out in support of a man with longstand shady ties to Russian power and money Those hacks revealed the truth, no? > [@](#): > > 1. The Russian hack was about putting a Russian agent in the Whitehouse - a fact which led to Donald Trump putting Russian agents in the actual Oval Office because he’s afraid to say no to Vladimir Putin: And there it is. Back to the Manchurian candidate theory. Good luck with that. I hope you can make it stick. I want trump out of the white house as much as anyone, so good luck with that. > [@](#): > > [Controversial Oval Office meeting was held at Putin's request](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/controversial-oval-office-meeting-was-held-putins-request) Rachel maddow is a bit biased in her reporting these days. > [@](#): > > This is not about Hillary. It has never been about Hillary. Hillary herself has been completely irrelevant since the moment that Obama told her to concede. And yet people keep saying that Hillary won the election by 3 million popular votes. > [@](#): > > Your repeated insistence that it’s the _liberals_ who can’t let go of Hillary is a lie, and it’s one your repeat ad nauseum - just like all the various Russian propaganda agents who’ve been spreading fake news for a year now. What a funny coincidence. > > Also, just so we’re clear, this post is not about Hillary. The Russian investigation is not about Hillary. This forum is not about Hillary. This board is not about Hillary. My accusation that you are repeating Russian agitprop is not about Hillary. My opinion of you, that you are, at best, a danger to yourself and others, is not about Hillary. Your Mom is not about Hillary. My toejam is not about Hillary. My dog, who is waiting to be walked, is not about Hillary. The shit that will momentarily issue forth from his bowels is, wait for it - not about Hillary. > > You, Damuri Ajashi, on the other, you are ALL ABOUT Hillary. Funny. U mad bro? I am rarely the one that brings up Hillary. I push back when people whine about the popular vote but I don’t bring it up a whole lot. And I disagree. At least part of the Russia investigation is propelled by the notion that Russia’s involvement somehow delegitimizes the election or somehow excuses Hillary’s loss. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/171 "2017-05-15T19:55:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As a person who at least aspires to being a fan of precise and accurate speech, I respectfully request that you refrain from referring to Mrs. Clinton as a “shitty candidate.” A “shitty candidate” is a candidate who would, if successful at achieving the position (s)he seeks, would likely do a shitty job of performing the functions of the position (_see, for instance, the candidate, who, despite being shitty, actually attained the position under discussion_). > > There is every reason to expect that, had Mrs. Clinton won the presidency, she would have done an excellent job at it. Just as President Obama did. Therefore, whatever her flaws as a campaigner, Hillary Clinton was an _excellent_ candidate. BULLSHIT!!! Being competent, hard-working and smart do not make you a good candidate. being able to win makes you a good candidate. There are thousands of people in the beltway who are every bit as smart hard working and competent as Hillary Clinton and any and every issue. Think tanks, lobbying firms, law firms and agencies are packed with them. What Hillary offered that none of the others did was some experience and the promise of getting elected. She lost to Trump. That makes her a shitty candidate almost by definition. > [@](#): > > Feel free to conclude that we had a shitty electorate, considering the result. You can’t blame the voters when Hillary loses an election. Noone owes her their vote, she has got to go out there and earn it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/172 "2017-05-15T19:59:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You can’t blame the voters when Hillary loses an election. Noone owes her their vote, she has got to go out there and earn it. Sure you can. Some people do shitty things, and people who do shitty things (like vote for Trump) certainly deserve some blame for it. I don’t put all of the blame on them, since Hillary and her team made tons of mistakes, but I don’t put all of the blame on her either. I blame GW Bush and his team for starting a dumb war as much or more than I blame their opponents who failed to stop the war. The people who make mistakes and fail to stop something bad deserve some blame for failing to stop it. But you know who also deserves blame for those bad things? \*The people who actually did the bad things \* (or those who voted for them). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/173 "2017-05-15T20:05:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What’s the point of hating Hillary? She’s very flawed like many other people. Nonetheless she worked very hard and did what she thought was best to win, but made too many mistakes and she lost. I put a lot of the blame for the loss on her, but I don’t hate her any more than I hate any other flawed person who tried to defeat someone much, much worse. > > This kind of hatred says a lot more about you than it does about Hillary. It’s also bad for your health. Your hatred comes through in your posts, just like, for example, **adaher** ’s (an otherwise often reasonable poster) personal hatred for Obama shined through his posts. That kind of hatred is almost always unreasonable, and always personally harmful to the one who hates. Well I’ve been channeling Cenk Uygur lately and I thought the rage would simmer down but every time Trump does something evil, I can’t help but think that the selfish ambitions of a horribly flawed candidate opened the door for the fucking bobblehead in the white house. How the FUCK do you lose an election to Trump?!?! I never got that Adaher hated Obama. He always struck me as a typical conservative who was moderate on a few points. Is he not a conservative but just seemed like one because he hated Obama? What did Obama do to warrant such hatred? Did he lose an election to Trump? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/174 "2017-05-15T20:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Damuri Ajashi** > You can’t blame the voters when Hillary loses an election. Noone owes her their vote, she has got to go out there and earn it. Technically she won the election. I’ll give it up when you do. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/175 "2017-05-15T20:07:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure you can. Some people do shitty things, and people who do shitty things (like vote for Trump) certainly deserve some blame for it. I don’t put all of the blame on them, since Hillary and her team made tons of mistakes, but I don’t put all of the blame on her either. > > I blame GW Bush and his team for starting a dumb war as much or more than I blame their opponents who failed to stop the war. > > The people who make mistakes and fail to stop something bad deserve some blame for failing to stop it. But you know who also deserves blame for those bad things? \*The people who actually did the bad things \* (or those who voted for them). The blame is frequently not being leveled at Trump voters. it is being leveled at people who didn’t vote at all because they thought that neither candidate deserved their vote or at people like me who voted for Hillary … just not enthusiastically enough. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/176 "2017-05-15T20:17:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well I’ve been channeling Cenk Uygur lately and I thought the rage would simmer down but every time Trump does something evil, I can’t help but think that the selfish ambitions of a horribly flawed candidate opened the door for the fucking bobblehead in the white house. How the FUCK do you lose an election to Trump?!?! You’ll have to get over this. Many politicians – probably most of them, in fact, and especially most Republicans, IMO – are guilty of far, far worse sins than Hillary’s. Hindsight is 20/20, but Hillary could have spent $50 million in PA, WI, and MI, and possibly still lost – one reason her campaign was hesitant in WI and MI were that any showing of doubt might have further motivated anti-Hillary voters in those states. It was probably the wrong move, but it’s possible she was right. Trump won, due to a combination of many things. He really did connect with a lot of Americans, unfortunately. That’s not Hillary’s fault. It’s not her fault he won the Republican nomination. Lots of things are her fault, and she’s highly flawed. I wish Bernie had won the nomination now, but at the time I thought Hillary had a better chance to win. So did a lot of other smart people. It looks now like we were wrong, but we can’t know for sure (unless Bernie wins in 2020 and cleans Trump’s clock). > [@](#): > > I never got that Adaher hated Obama. He always struck me as a typical conservative who was moderate on a few points. Is he not a conservative but just seemed like one because he hated Obama? What did Obama do to warrant such hatred? Did he lose an election to Trump? This would be even more of a hijack, and I feel no more need to denigrate **adaher** (who I otherwise bear no ill will towards), but he’s admitted his personal feelings for Obama openly multiple times. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The blame is frequently not being leveled at Trump voters. it is being leveled at people who didn’t vote at all because they thought that neither candidate deserved their vote or at people like me who voted for Hillary … just not enthusiastically enough. People who didn’t vote deserve some of the blame, IMO. I don’t blame you, though, since you voted for her. I only think your hatred is both unreasonable and harmful to yourself. It’s not fun to read about hatred, in general, and I don’t think any Dopers (except, perhaps, schadenfreude-seeking Trump supporters) enjoy reading your hateful screeds about Hillary. I think you’d feel better if you tried to resist and tamp down on these negative feelings. They’re unproductive and unhealthy. Channel your anger about Trump towards trying to win the next elections. Point out the mistakes of the past, of course, so we don’t repeat them, but those are tactical and strategic in nature, and don’t need to be personal about Hillary (or anyone else). ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/177 "2017-05-15T21:27:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > She still got 3 million more votes than Trump. And she won that useless statistic at the cost of losing the actual election. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/178 "2017-05-15T23:48:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ll have to get over this. Many politicians – probably most of them, in fact, and especially most Republicans, IMO – are guilty of far, far worse sins than Hillary’s. Hindsight is 20/20, but Hillary could have spent $50 million in PA, WI, and MI, and possibly still lost – one reason her campaign was hesitant in WI and MI were that any showing of doubt might have further motivated anti-Hillary voters in those states. It was probably the wrong move, but it’s possible she was right. > > Trump won, due to a combination of many things. He really did connect with a lot of Americans, unfortunately. That’s not Hillary’s fault. It’s not her fault he won the Republican nomination. > > Lots of things are her fault, and she’s highly flawed. I wish Bernie had won the nomination now, but at the time I thought Hillary had a better chance to win. So did a lot of other smart people. It looks now like we were wrong, but we can’t know for sure (unless Bernie wins in 2020 and cleans Trump’s clock). If we want to go back to the beginning I blame Trump’s mother for not swallowing. > [@](#): > > People who didn’t vote deserve some of the blame, IMO. I don’t blame you, though, since you voted for her. I only think your hatred is both unreasonable and harmful to yourself. I can’t blame voters for not voting for someone that I had to hold my nose to vote for. I can understand the sentiment of not wanting to vote for a candidate that you don’t like. Its not their job to like whoever the Democratic party vomits into the ring. Its the job of that candidate to get them to vote for her. > [@](#): > > It’s not fun to read about hatred, in general, and I don’t think any Dopers (except, perhaps, schadenfreude-seeking Trump supporters) enjoy reading your hateful screeds about Hillary. I think you’d feel better if you tried to resist and tamp down on these negative feelings. They’re unproductive and unhealthy. > > Channel your anger about Trump towards trying to win the next elections. Point out the mistakes of the past, of course, so we don’t repeat them, but those are tactical and strategic in nature, and don’t need to be personal about Hillary (or anyone else). Well, then let me start by telling all the “:ready for Warren” people to STFU. The last thing you want to do is associate Elizabeth Warren with someone like Hillary. Stop this fucking quest to elect a woman and focus on just electing a Democrat because we can’t afford affirmative action in the nominating process. Warren may end up being the best candidate but don’t push her just because she has a vagina I see all this excuse making over Hillary’s loss, she has a vagina, the Republicans have been waging a campaign of character assassination and lies against her for 20 years, etc Well all that was true before we nominated her. But they still nominated her. in fact they conspired and cheated to do so. Why the fuck did we nominate her. Its not like she grew her vagina between the nomination and the election. she had all these unelectable qualities before she was nominated. And we see people defending her to this day and pretending she didn’t cheat and the DNC didn’t conspire. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/179 "2017-05-16T00:42:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If we want to go back to the beginning I blame Trump’s mother for not swallowing. > > I can’t blame voters for not voting for someone that I had to hold my nose to vote for. I can understand the sentiment of not wanting to vote for a candidate that you don’t like. Its not their job to like whoever the Democratic party vomits into the ring. Its the job of that candidate to get them to vote for her. > > Well, then let me start by telling all the “:ready for Warren” people to STFU. The last thing you want to do is associate Elizabeth Warren with someone like Hillary. Stop this fucking quest to elect a woman and focus on just electing a Democrat because we can’t afford affirmative action in the nominating process. Warren may end up being the best candidate but don’t push her just because she has a vagina > > I see all this excuse making over Hillary’s loss, she has a vagina, the Republicans have been waging a campaign of character assassination and lies against her for 20 years, etc Well all that was true before we nominated her. But they still nominated her. in fact they conspired and cheated to do so. Why the fuck did we nominate her. Its not like she grew her vagina between the nomination and the election. she had all these unelectable qualities before she was nominated. > > And we see people defending her to this day and pretending she didn’t cheat and the DNC didn’t conspire. Things that seem obvious to you about someone you hate might not be so obvious to those without that hatred. If you’re surprised that the DNC “conspired”, then I think you’ve been deluding yourself. Of course the DNC is going to favor a prominent Democrat over an independent. Not terribly fair, but party committees have always been about winning, not fairness. They got it wrong, of course, and I wish they had been smarter. But complaining that they aren’t fair is like complaining that your cat keeps eating your goldfish. It’s very hard to let go of hatred. Frankly, I doubt you’ll do it. By your posts, you enjoy hating Hillary, and enjoy expressing that hatred. Hopefully you’ll prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179/180 "2017-05-16T08:26:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Reading what I said more closely. I should have said that “this was in response to a post responding to the OP” not “a response to a post by the OP.” Ok. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > Buddha David posted: > > “Hillary won 3,000,000 popular votes _more_ than Trump. That’s not a crushing, that’s a dominant performance which lost on a cheap, outdated technicality.” > > That was in post 7 by Buddha David. The actual person to bring up Hillary in this thread was your fellow traveler, Great White Dope, who has since been banned, in post #5. In his absence, you’re the one who is perpetuating the Hillary hijack, and everyone here can see it. Pretending that it was a Hillary supporter who introduced her as the subject is typical of lies that need to be told to make her the villain of this narrative. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > And I disagree. At least part of the Russia investigation is propelled by the notion that Russia’s involvement somehow delegitimizes the election or somehow excuses Hillary’s loss. A foreign nation hacking our democratic institutions and colluding to defeat one of our presidential candidates is serious offense, regardless of the personal identities of the candidates involved. This is an actual event that happened. Pretending that this is merely about how _feelings_ for the candidates is carrying water for those who perpetrated this outrageous assault on our national institutions. I am not mad. I am cataclysmic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-praise-of-the-obamessiah-and-other-developments-of-the-sally-yates-testimony/786179.md?page=10)