# In preparation for the next "Willie Horton" ad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528 "2008-04-23T11:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/21 "2008-04-23T17:49:05Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] No, Willie Horton by itself did not sink Dukakis. But based on available polling statistics, it did some serious damage. [/QUOTE] If that’s true then I don’t see how Obama can be elected president. By the way that is my personal feeling as well, I have encountered way too much racism in both the US and Canada to believe either country would elect a black person as a national leader. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/22 "2008-04-23T17:51:17Z")
[QUOTE=lalenin] If that’s true then I don’t see how Obama can be elected president. By the way that is my personal feeling as well, I have encountered way too much racism in both the US and Canada to believe either country would elect a black person as a national leader. [/QUOTE] Though the ad itself was probably racist, it is not at all obvious that the fact that Horton was black made a worse impact to Dukakis than had he just been a violent repeat offender. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/23 "2008-04-23T17:55:48Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] Though the ad itself was probably racist, it is not at all obvious that the fact that Horton was black made a worse impact to Dukakis than had he just been a violent repeat offender. [/QUOTE] Actually I think that **is** pretty obvious, and was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/24 "2008-04-23T18:14:27Z")
Obama is a superior candidate to Michael Dukakis in every way. I remember at 11 years old thinking, “Really? This guy is a candidate for President?” ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/25 "2008-04-23T18:23:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Actually I think that **is** pretty obvious, and was at the time. [/QUOTE] And I think that **is** your opinion. The ad was manipulative and calculating, of course. But teasing out what occurred in the heads of all of the people swayed by the ad is not something we can safely assume. Assuming what goes on in peoples’ heads is a splendid way to lose elections. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/26 "2008-04-23T18:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] No, Willie Horton by itself did not sink Dukakis. But based on available polling statistics, it did some serious damage. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget his statement during the campaign that he would raise taxes. There was a great SNL skit “What were you thinking” or something like that with someone playing Dukakis after he lost the election. He was the perfect target for the Republican talking points about Democrats: - Soft on crime (furlough program with a great example of its failure) - High taxes ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/27 "2008-04-23T18:54:52Z")
If you are looking for more things that sank Dukakis, [look no further](http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/lm10.html). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/28 "2008-04-23T19:03:18Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] So, the one who came up with the idea to make a calculated appeal to the voters’ basest fears and hatreds was Al Gore. And the only thing wrong with it was that it didn’t work for him. As ever, IOKIADDI. [/QUOTE] Gore talked only about the furlough program as a whole. He didn’t mention Horton’s name. It was the Republicans who had the idea to wave a picture of a scary black boogeyman to scare whitey (something that Lee Atwater expressed remorse about on his deathbed). To the OP, the whole Reverend Wright thing IS Willie Horton redux. It’s the exact same, nakedly racist tactic. “Look at the scary negro! Look at the scary negro!” At least Horton really was a bad person. The way Wright is being caricatured by the right wing media is truly shameful. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/29 "2008-04-23T19:05:00Z")
[The most recent Willie Horton ad.](http://www.writeaprisoner.com/Template.aspx?i=z-189182) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/30 "2008-04-23T19:19:24Z")
Then there is the fact that his name was William, his mother called him William, his friends called him William, the prison guards called him William, fellow inmates called him William. In fact, the only time he was ever called “Willie” was in those Republican ads. I now leave it to the usual suspects to explain how there was absolutely no racial intent in renaming him “Willie” in those commercials. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/31 "2008-04-23T19:19:56Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] [The most recent Willie Horton ad.](http://www.writeaprisoner.com/Template.aspx?i=z-189182) [/QUOTE] Can’t be the same fellow – this one’s incarcerated in **Maryland.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/32 "2008-04-23T19:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Then there is the fact that his name was William, his mother called him William, his friends called him William, the prison guards called him William, fellow inmates called him William. In fact, the only time he was ever called “Willie” was in those Republican ads. I now leave it to the usual suspects to explain how there was absolutely no racial intent in renaming him “Willie” in those commercials. [/QUOTE] 😕 Is “Willie” a distinctly black nickname? I’ve never known an AA who used it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/33 "2008-04-23T19:26:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Gore talked only about the furlough program as a whole. He didn’t mention Horton’s name. [/quote] **BG** ’s cite disagrees with you - > [@](#): > > During a debate at the Felt Forum sponsored by the New York Daily News, Gore took issue with the furlough program and **brought up the Horton incident.** Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/34 "2008-04-23T19:39:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] **BG** ’s cite disagrees with you - [/QUOTE] I’m not sure where **BrainGlutton’s** cite is from, but CNN claims Gore did **not** mention Horton by name ([Cite](http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/26/dem.debate/index.html), about halfway down - search for “horton”). I’ve been looking for a transcript of the debate, but I haven’t found it yet. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/35 "2008-04-23T19:45:55Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] So, the one who came up with the idea to make a calculated appeal to the voters’ basest fears and hatreds was Al Gore. And the only thing wrong with it was that it didn’t work for him. As ever, IOKIADDI. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] You just won The Smallest Person in the World. And fuck you and you’re cop out that you’re only kidding. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/36 "2008-04-23T19:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bayard] I’m not sure where **BrainGlutton’s** cite is from . . . [/QUOTE] [Wikipedia.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/37 "2008-04-23T19:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Can’t be the same fellow – this one’s incarcerated in **Maryland.** [/QUOTE] It is. He was furloughed in MA but committed the crimes in MD and went to jail there for those crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/38 "2008-04-23T19:56:18Z")
[Slate](http://www.slate.com/id/1003919/) talks at some length about the Horton issue, also agreeing that Gore only spoke in the debate about the furlough program in general. A [NY Times](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE2DD173BF930A25757C0A96E948260&scp=1&sq=gore+dukakis+furlough&st=nyt) article the day after the debate only mentions that Gore “chided [Dukakis] for what he said were ‘‘deep cuts’’ in the state welfare budget and a prisoner furlough policy that has resulted in some prisoners escaping and others committing crimes while on leave”. In fact, the first mention of the name “Willie Horton” (except for the baseball player with the same name) in the NYT comes in June, in an article about a speech made by Bush. Dunno if this link will work, but here’s the [NYT query](http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=%22willie+horton%22&d=&o=&v=&c=&n=10&dp=0&daterange=period&srcht=a&year1=1988&mon1=01&day1=01&year2=1988&mon2=12&day2=31&sort=oldest). So, looks to me like Gore didn’t bring up Horton’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/39 "2008-04-23T19:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] And fuck you and you’re cop out that you’re only kidding. [/QUOTE] **BarnOwl** , personal insults are not allowed in GD. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/40 "2008-04-23T20:12:28Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] **BarnOwl** , personal insults are not allowed in GD. Don’t do this again. [/QUOTE] I apologize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528.md?page=3)