# In preparation for the next "Willie Horton" ad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528 "2008-04-23T11:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/41 "2008-04-23T20:36:59Z")
No problems. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/42 "2008-04-23T21:19:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Quote= Bayard] > > I’m not sure where BrainGlutton’s cite is from . . . Wikipedia. [/quote] The claim made in wikipedia is not cited, though, so there is no way to verify it. And if you read the discussion page for that entry there is considerable disagreement about the factual nature of that claim. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/43 "2008-04-23T21:34:42Z")
So getting back to the next so-called “Willie Horton” ad … Let’s say that you believe that there are voters out there who think that Obama has a special quality that will help him to bridge the gap and solve all of our racial problems. Let’s say that you think you can sway some of those voters by pointing out that he had a great opportunity to counsel his own pastor and mentor but apparently didn’t make the effort. So you make an ad and you show the clips of the Rev. Wright in his African clergy garb saying “God Damn America” and “USA of KKK”. Would you hear the screams of “Willie Horton!!” “Willie Horton !!”?? ---
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/44 "2008-04-23T21:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] How can that be the standard? Even Jessie Jackson said that black people scare him when he’s walking down a street and looks over his shoulder. [/QUOTE] It’s called a “double standard.” Obama has made an entire campaign out of it (well, that, and a speech). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/45 "2008-04-23T21:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] So getting back to the next so-called “Willie Horton” ad … Let’s say that you believe that there are voters out there who think that Obama has a special quality that will help him to bridge the gap and solve all of our racial problems. Let’s say that you think you can sway some of those voters by pointing out that he had a great opportunity to counsel his own pastor and mentor but apparently didn’t make the effort. So you make an ad and you show the clips of the Rev. Wright in his African clergy garb saying “God Damn America” and “USA of KKK”. Would you hear the screams of “Willie Horton!!” “Willie Horton !!”?? [/QUOTE] If you did, you could brush them off. One might argue that someone shuffled thru a lot of inmates to get to Willie Horton and chose him because he looked like a scary Black guy. But Obama has had only one pastor/spiritual mentor over the decades. Willie Horton isn’t the be all and end all of negative campaigning. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/46 "2008-04-23T22:04:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] If you did, you could brush them off. One might argue that someone shuffled thru a lot of inmates to get to Willie Horton and chose him because he looked like a scary Black guy. But Obama has had only one pastor/spiritual mentor over the decades. Willie Horton isn’t the be all and end all of negative campaigning. [/QUOTE] Were there other candidates to use as examples of the failure of the furlough program? A convicted murderer getting out for the weekend who then commits rape? What did the list look like that they had to choose from? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/47 "2008-04-23T22:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] Were there other candidates to use as examples of the failure of the furlough program? A convicted murderer getting out for the weekend who then commits rape? What did the list look like that they had to choose from? [/QUOTE] I have no idea. But it doesn’t matter in light of the question. Bringing up Reverend Wright as a negative campaign issue just isn’t like the Willie Horton ads (no matter how they got his mug), so it’s not a good comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/48 "2008-04-23T22:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] So getting back to the next so-called “Willie Horton” ad … Let’s say that you believe that there are voters out there who think that Obama has a special quality that will help him to bridge the gap and solve all of our racial problems. Let’s say that you think you can sway some of those voters by pointing out that he had a great opportunity to counsel his own pastor and mentor but apparently didn’t make the effort. So you make an ad and you show the clips of the Rev. Wright in his African clergy garb saying “God Damn America” and “USA of KKK”. [/quote] African clergy garb? > [@](#): > > Would you hear the screams of “Willie Horton!!” “Willie Horton !!”?? I’m screaming exactly that, but the Reverend Wright lynching-by-proxy is worse. As I said upthread, at least Horton was a genuinely bad person. All Wright did was drop a little too much truth at the pulpit now and then. His criticisms about America were accurate (except for the AIDS thing, but his paranoia was not entirely unjustified considering stuff like Tuskeegee), he never said anything racist, he isn’t a criminal and he has done many good things for his community. His demonization is even more cynically racist than the Horton ads. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/49 "2008-04-23T22:27:01Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I have no idea. But it doesn’t matter in light of the question. Bringing up Reverend Wright as a negative campaign issue just isn’t like the Willie Horton ads (no matter how they got his mug), so it’s not a good comparison. [/QUOTE] It’s worse because Wright is not a murderer who they sought to associate with Obama. They deliberately morphed Wright into something he isn’t in order to frighten white voters and it worked. Lots and lots of people actually now believe that Jermiah Wright is a dangerous, Black Nationalist, America-hating terrorist (and never mind that Wright is a former Marine and a Vetnam Vet. Military service is a sign of unimpeachable virtuem but only if you’re a Republican). It’s not the association of Wright with Obama that’s racist, it’s the villifcation of Wright in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/50 "2008-04-23T22:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s worse because Wright is not a murderer who they sought to associate with Obama. [/quote] Right. They associated themselves with each other. > [@](#): > > They deliberately morphed Wright into something he isn’t in order to frighten white voters and it worked. Lots and lots of people actually now believe that Jermiah Wright is a dangerous, Black Nationalist, America-hating terrorist (and never mind that Wright is a former Marine and a Vetnam Vet. Military service is a sign of unimpeachable virtuem but only if you’re a Republican). It’s not the association of Wright with Obama that’s racist, it’s the villifcation of Wright in the first place. Good thing Obama had the integrity to recognize that and kept him on in the campaign. Or was it racist of him to get rid of Write? You gotta help me out here… I’m having trouble keeping track of all the race issues. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/51 "2008-04-23T22:48:11Z")
One strategy that has successfully been used in the past is to find a candidates strength and use it against him, even if you have to exaggerate and/or make stuff up out of whole cloth. (Swiftboaters anyone?) Hillary has already tried this to an extent (Obama’s “not the same old Washington way” being cast as “inexperience”) There is a limit to how much this can be done in a primary, however. In an Obama/McCain battle, I suspect McCain’s team will dig up the “inexperience” issue, and they’ll do it quickly. They will want to position themselves so that any dig at their candidates age will be seen as simple “tit for tat politicking”. Some of the media will focus on his popularity as a negative. (What is the real story about this “cult” following that Obama seems to have? Story after these messages) (Obama; cult leader or shallow charmer? We report, You decide!) Of course, there will be subtle digs at the race issue again and again (and again). They will try not to cross the line, but: Watch for the worst of the race issues to be brought up by “unrelated” third parties. Watch for a reprise of a version of the[Tennessee “call me” ad](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15403071/) Watch for Obama to be portrayed in advertisements with a very poor lighting/altered colors that show him to be very “dark”. Watch for the use of racial code words in blogs and other places (maybe Obama will like [Canadians](http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=261254) a bit too much… Watch for “We’re not ready for… a president like him” “Those people don’t understand us” (what? by “those people” we meant Democrats! really!) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/52 "2008-04-24T10:32:23Z")
Anybody else agree with **Dio the C** that a Wright ad is worse than a Horton ad? Why hasn’t Wright been out defending himself and Obama if he isn’t what he’s been made out to be?? I heard he’s going to do an interview with catholic hater Bill Maher… that’s sure to be hard hitting! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/53 "2008-04-24T12:50:12Z")
[And so it begins.](http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6098806) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/54 "2008-04-24T12:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Why hasn’t Wright been out defending himself and Obama if he isn’t what he’s been made out to be?? [/quote] Probably because he’s at least politically savvy enough to know it would be futile. [QUOTE=What the … !!!] . . . catholic hater Bill Maher . . . [/QUOTE] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/55 "2008-04-24T12:58:57Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] I heard he’s going to do an interview with catholic hater Bill Maher… that’s sure to be hard hitting! [/QUOTE] Maher is an atheist who hits all religions, even if he sames some special vitriol for the pope and other Catholic clergy due to the child molestation scandal. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/56 "2008-04-24T13:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Maher is an atheist who hits all religions . . . [/QUOTE] Does that mean he will interview Wright on an atheist-vs.-preacher basis? (I hope! 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/57 "2008-04-24T14:20:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Probably because he’s at least politically savvy enough to know it would be futile. 😕 [/QUOTE] So perhaps a better question is … why isn’t ABCNNBCBS after him demanding an interview?? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/58 "2008-04-24T14:39:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Does that mean he will interview Wright on an atheist-vs.-preacher basis? [/QUOTE] I don’t know what his angle will be, but he’s an unabashed Obama supporter and virulently anti-Hillary and anti-McCain. The audience seems to lean strongly towards Obama, too. It’ll most likely be some form of a love-fest. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/59 "2008-04-24T14:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Euphonious Polemic] Watch for the use of racial code words in blogs and other places (maybe Obama will like [Canadians](http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=261254) a bit too much… [/QUOTE] WTF?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528/60 "2008-04-24T14:45:48Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] So perhaps a better question is … why isn’t ABCNNBCBS after him demanding an interview?? [/QUOTE] How do you know they’re not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-preparation-for-the-next-willie-horton-ad/446528.md?page=4)