# In Pulp Fiction... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975 "2006-01-01T18:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/81 "2017-01-09T04:56:04Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > After which he could have easily prevented everyone in the diner from being robbed, but consciously acted to allow it anyway. > > Real enlightened. Traditionally, enlightenment has been associated with a realization that worldly goods aren’t important. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/82 "2017-01-09T13:59:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …Butch initially figured he could challenge Vincent because he’s bigger than Vincent. Vincent figured he could challenge Butch because he worked for Marsellus Wallace and they were in his bar. Each guy thought he had an unfair advantage over the other and was acting like a bully. > > Then Marsellus called out to Vincent and Butch realized he was outmatched. He had to back down. (Tarantino explicitly said this in his notes in the script.) So going out and keying Vincent’s car in retaliation was in keeping with his character. > > It’s the same thing with the apartment scene later on. Vincent planned on ambushing Butch. But Butch instead caught Vincent with his pants down. > > The two scenes were essentially mirror images. Neither man wanted a fair fight. They each treated the other one as a loser they could push around. In the first scene, Butch though he had a clear advantage but it turned on him and Vincent had the advantage. In the second scene, the roles were reversed. And in both cases, it was Marsellus Wallace who turned the advantage around; by his presence in the first scene and by his absence in the second scene. Nothing to add…just wanted to point out how cool this analysis is. It sounds like something a lit teacher would say, in the same way they might be talking about the symbolism in The Great Gatsby. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/83 "2017-01-09T17:08:35Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Since I first posted this thread I’ve finished my PhD., gotten a real job, moved states twice, gotten married, had a kid, renovated a house, and written five novels. Check out the big brain on **Sattua**! ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/84 "2017-01-09T18:37:33Z")
I know this is a zombie, and I know I’ve posted this in other threads before… [but here is Tarantino on the keying on Vince’s Car](https://youtu.be/HZ4XBOq2Huw?t=3m31s) ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/85 "2017-01-10T17:02:50Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > He’s a fucking criminal too. Why would he do such a thing and call unnecessary attention to himself? > > \*"On the news tonight, a foiled robbery at a diner. Security cameras took \*\*these \*\*\*\*pictures \*_of the anonymous Good Samaritan who stopped the bandits in their tracks before leaving the scene with a companion…"_ He had a sentimental attachment to the wallet. He wasn’t a Good Samaritan who stopped the bandits, either: he let them leave with all the other wallets and purses they collected from the other diners. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/86 "2017-01-10T19:50:53Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > He had a sentimental attachment to the wallet. He wasn’t a Good Samaritan who stopped the bandits, either: he let them leave with all the other wallets and purses they collected from the other diners. The news would have considered him a Good Samaritan if he had stopped them. He didn’t because he’s a FUCKING CRIMINAL! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/87 "2017-01-10T20:20:17Z")
Or, given that he’s walking the earth, he feels that the important part of the scene is to bring enlightenment to Hunny Bunny and Pumpkin. Stopping the robbery isn’t important, teaching them a lesson is important. Obviously, maybe Caine from Kung Fu would have taught them a different lesson, probably involving more [boot to the head](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8VD4JXUozM). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/88 "2017-01-10T22:52:47Z")
**Ellis Dee** ’s timeline is quite good. It even includes the Capt. Koons/Butch scene that a lot of _PF_ timelines leave out. But … (There’s always a “but”.) Pumpkin/Ringo and Honey Bunny/Yolanda rob the diner _twice_. One, shown at the beginning has Honey Bunny holding the gun with _one_ hand while she’s screaming the “execute” line at the customers and freezes into the titles. The other, she is holding the gun with _both_ hands while she threatens executing the customers. (The fact that they are robbing the same place in the same way can be explained by them being stoners who can’t remember stuff. And Ringo’s repeated use of the “garçon” bit is maybe just his thing. Despite being told already it means “boy”.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/89 "2017-01-10T23:07:17Z")
What was the last movie as quotable as Pulp Fiction? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/90 "2017-01-10T23:23:51Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Pumpkin/Ringo and Honey Bunny/Yolanda rob the diner _twice_. One, shown at the beginning has Honey Bunny holding the gun with _one_ hand while she’s screaming the “execute” line at the customers and freezes into the titles. The other, she is holding the gun with _both_ hands while she threatens executing the customers. > > (The fact that they are robbing the same place in the same way can be explained by them being stoners who can’t remember stuff. And Ringo’s repeated use of the “garçon” bit is maybe just his thing. Despite being told already it means “boy”.) Her “Execute all you motherfuckers!” line is delivered differently in both takes too. I always assumed the discontinuities were due to either (a) Tarantino exploring the tantalizing possibilities of multiple timelines or (b) some cockup in scriptwriting or film editing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/91 "2017-01-11T14:41:57Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I always assumed the discontinuities were due to either (a) Tarantino exploring the tantalizing possibilities of multiple timelines or (b) some cockup in scriptwriting or film editing. _If_ it was planned at all: The first one was intended to halt on Honey Bunny from the front and freeze for the opening credits. The second was intended to continue and show the pair moving thru the diner which required a different camera angle from the side. Choosing to switch angles midway thru Honey Bunny’s rant rather than afterwards inevitably results in mismatches. As to the multiple timeline issue: There _is_ the alternate timeline showing Bonnie entering the house to see a bunch of gangsters doing gangster stuff. Given the whole timeline timewarp it is an interesting question as to whether the events in general all belong to the same timeline. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/92 "2017-01-11T16:57:44Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > _If_ it was planned at all: > > The first one was intended to halt on Honey Bunny from the front and freeze for the opening credits. The second was intended to continue and show the pair moving thru the diner which required a different camera angle from the side. Choosing to switch angles midway thru Honey Bunny’s rant rather than afterwards inevitably results in mismatches. > > As to the multiple timeline issue: There _is_ the alternate timeline showing Bonnie entering the house to see a bunch of gangsters doing gangster stuff. > > Given the whole timeline timewarp it is an interesting question as to whether the events in general all belong to the same timeline. In this book [http://www.alibris.com/Tarantino-A-to-Z-The-Films-of-Quentin-Tarantino-Alan-Barnes/book/6550703](http://www.alibris.com/Tarantino-A-to-Z-The-Films-of-Quentin-Tarantino-Alan-Barnes/book/6550703), the authors state that the two versions of the speech were written into the script. So it was not just a matter of screwing up between takes. When I was an EFL teacher, I used to show _ **Pulp Fiction** _ to my students at least once a year, and we would then analyze the hell out of it. I think the way the film is structured is to give us a God’s-eye-view of the events in it by flashing back and forth in time. The robbery in the diner suggests there were other ways in which they might develop. When the movie’s scenes are reassembled in their correct chronological order, BTW, the whole focus of it changes. It becomes the story of Jules’ conversion and what happens to Vincent when he fails to follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/93 "2017-01-13T21:47:12Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > When the movie’s scenes are reassembled in their correct chronological order, BTW, the whole focus of it changes. It becomes the story of Jules’ conversion and what happens to Vincent when he fails to follow suit. I thought the theme of the movie is that Vincent shouldn’t go to the bathroom? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/94 "2017-01-13T22:15:57Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Pumpkin/Ringo and Honey Bunny/Yolanda rob the diner _twice_. One, shown at the beginning has Honey Bunny holding the gun with _one_ hand while she’s screaming the “execute” line at the customers and freezes into the titles. The other, she is holding the gun with _both_ hands while she threatens executing the customers. > > (The fact that they are robbing the same place in the same way can be explained by them being stoners who can’t remember stuff. And Ringo’s repeated use of the “garçon” bit is maybe just his thing. Despite being told already it means “boy”.) I always interpreted those discrepancies as a commentary on the faulty nature of memory, but I have nothing to back that up with. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/95 "2017-01-13T22:19:37Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I thought the theme of the movie is that Vincent shouldn’t go to the bathroom? 🙂 “Plop” Fiction? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/96 "2017-01-14T00:25:37Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > “Plop” Fiction? 😛 “Poop,” not “Plop”! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975/97 "2017-01-14T02:58:08Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Her “Execute all you motherfuckers!” line is delivered differently in both takes too. > > I always assumed the discontinuities were due to either (a) Tarantino exploring the tantalizing possibilities of multiple timelines or (b) some cockup in scriptwriting or film editing. I’m pretty sure it’s not much deeper than a _Rashmon_ reference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pulp-fiction/337975.md?page=4)