# In Pursuit of Utopia **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236 "2015-04-09T17:52:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/21 "2015-04-12T23:08:12Z")
“Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary. The wider course would be to say that there are certain lines along which humanity must move, the grand strategy is mapped out, but detailed prophecy is not our business. Whoever tries to imagine perfection simply reveals his own emptiness.” – [George Orwell](http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/site/work/essays/fun.html) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/22 "2015-04-12T23:22:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary. The wider course would be to say that there are certain lines along which humanity must move, the grand strategy is mapped out, but detailed prophecy is not our business. Whoever tries to imagine perfection simply reveals his own emptiness.” > > – [George Orwell](http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/site/work/essays/fun.html) That essay contains the phrase, “the stinking Yahoos”. Priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/23 "2015-04-16T16:39:23Z")
The OP asks what a Utopia would look like. [Here’s one opinion](https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tji5dyos4e376dwahtikdtkuaju?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics): _There’s a lake of gin We can both jump in And the handouts grow on bushes In the new-mown hay We can sleep all day And the bars all have free lunches Where the mail train stops And there ain’t no cops And the folks are tender-hearted Where you never change your socks And you never throw rocks And your hair is never parted Oh the buzzin’ of the bees in the cigarette trees The soda water fountain where the lemonade springs And the bluebird sings in that Big Rock Candy Mountain_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/24 "2015-04-16T17:11:53Z")
See also [Cockaigne.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockaigne) (No, it’s not something you snort.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/25 "2015-04-16T19:01:34Z")
The reason that Utopia is impossible is that our wishes represent a [partial ordering.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set) (This has already been alluded to in this thread by several people.) Utopian perfection implies maximizing a bunch of characteristics of the society, but many cannot be compared across people. Person A wants to maximize sexual freedom. Person B wants to maximize sexual morality according to some religion. How is any society going to be perfect for both? The only way is to get rid of one of these - which is why any Utopian society, I contend, will soon turn totalitarian. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236/26 "2015-04-16T19:59:02Z")
If Persons C through Z want to maximize murder, that will take car of many personality conflicts that would otherwise be troublesome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-pursuit-of-utopia/717236.md?page=1)