# In re: Atheists v. Christians debate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153 "2015-10-19T17:19:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/281 "2015-10-29T22:46:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve submitted a comment at August West’s link that is now “awaiting moderation”. What are the odds they’ll allow it? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/282 "2015-10-29T22:58:34Z")
August West, isn’t he a character from Lovecraft? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/283 "2015-10-29T23:00:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > August West, isn’t he a character from Lovecraft? [August Derleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Derleth)? > [@](#): > > August William Derleth (February 24, 1909 – July 4, 1971) was an American writer and anthologist. Though best remembered as the first book publisher of the writings of H. P. Lovecraft, and for his own contributions to the Cthulhu Mythos genre of horror, as well as his founding of the publisher Arkham House ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/284 "2015-10-29T23:09:22Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [August Derleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Derleth)? And [Herbert West–Reanimator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_West). (Fantastic story, guilty pleasure film.) ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/285 "2015-10-29T23:33:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > August West, isn’t he a character from Lovecraft? [From the Dead’s _Wharf Rat_](http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/wrat.html#august): > [@](#): > > My name is August West, and I love my Pearly Baker best more than my wine. > More than my wine - more than my maker, though he’s no friend of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/286 "2015-10-29T23:44:37Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What are the odds they’ll allow it? I’m guessing not high. Personally, I think it was a mistake for the atheists to indulge the “absolute morality” discussion. They should have just said there is no absolute morality - the morality that is generally consistent across human societies is a cobbled-together set of evolutionary drives that more-or-less worked in our favour as a species, favour in this case meaning it increases the chances of (or at least did not _hurt_ the chances of) our survival. We’ve observed that lions will indeed kill baby lions (not necessarily eating them, though) when a pride leader is overthrown, i.e. the displaced male’s offspring is killed by the new pride leader. I can vaguely imagine lions eventually evolving into an intelligent self-aware species, with a moral code that is casually accepting of the murder of the children of other _panthera leo sapiens_. That’s just how it’s _done_, old boy, and it’s absurd to contemplate otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/287 "2015-10-30T00:52:53Z")
The God defenders could actually reference Descartes’ “I think, therefore I am.” In actual context, Descartes used the statement as a catechism to rethink every fact that was being disproved: IE, the human heart was formerly thought to be in the middle of the body until we actually cut open bodies and looked inside. Denying the old established wisdom led to new discoveries. Because we were breaking away from the old ways of thinking, Descartes actually meant “I doubt, therefore I am.” But who can truly deny everything? Humans don’t have the ability to totally refute what they perceive. They can only go a step at a time to infinity, so why even bother? The only being capable of totally undefining what’s already been defined is Gawwwwd. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/288 "2015-10-30T14:37:56Z")
Well it was…interesting. I think I could best describe it as 1/2 of an honest debate. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/289 "2015-10-30T19:27:56Z")
Nearly 300 posts in and I have no idea what is being discussed here, other than dougie’s mental capacity. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/290 "2015-10-30T19:32:58Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Nearly 300 posts in and I have no idea what is being discussed here, other than dougie’s mental capacity. Until yesterday, there was nothing else to discuss as the church who sponsored the debate hasn’t posted the audio as promised. **August West** found another site where the full audio was posted so there’s been some commentary. It’s 3 hours so not everyone has had time to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/291 "2015-10-31T02:54:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m guessing not high… Apparently you guessed right. I also tried to post a comment-no go. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/292 "2015-10-31T13:15:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Apparently you guessed right. I also tried to post a comment-no go. And there are new pro-Christian comments up. I guess their faith can’t tolerate a little dissent. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/293 "2015-10-31T18:01:46Z")
This is the comment I made on October 29th. On my screen, I still see the note “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” I don’t know if anyone else can see the comment: > [@](#): > > The presuppositionalist position isn’t any more rational than other forms of theism – it’s just spoken with more confidence. I could just as confidently assert that Zeus is supreme and everyone knows (but many people deny) that Zeus is supreme, that the supremacy of Zeus is self-evident, to the point where any suggestion that Zeus was not supreme is obviously absurd and not worth considering. Possibly it’s not overtly offensive enough for them to just delete it, or the hosts of the site are a tad skittish about presuppositionalism, though they’re still cheerleaders for Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/294 "2015-10-31T18:04:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > This is the comment I made on October 29th. On my screen, I still see the note “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” I don’t know if anyone else can see the comment: > > Possibly it’s not overtly offensive enough for them to just delete it, or the hosts of the site are a tad skittish about presuppositionalism, though they’re still cheerleaders for Jesus. it’s not there. Just comments from their side. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/295 "2015-10-31T18:11:23Z")
I gather they’ve consigned my comment to limbo, then. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/296 "2015-10-31T18:19:27Z")
Looks like **dougie** has gone into hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153/297 "2015-10-31T18:35:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well it was…interesting. I think I could best describe it as 1/2 of an honest debate. Remember - Dougie hates honesty. He claims here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17706838&postcount=158](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17706838&postcount=158) that no true preacher is ever honest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-re-atheists-v-christians-debate/735153.md?page=14)