# In San Jose, Poor Find Doors to Library Closed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694 "2016-03-31T04:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/1 "2016-03-31T04:38:19Z")
> [@](#): > > In San Jose, libraries began charging 50 cents a day for an overdue book, and what Jill Bourne, who become director of libraries in 2013, called “an exorbitant processing fee” of $20 for lost materials. Those high fines have come at a cost. > > In impoverished neighborhoods, where few residents have broadband connections or computers, nearly a third of cardholders are barred from borrowing or using library computers. Half of the children and teenagers with library cards in the city owe fines. Around 187,000 accounts, or 39 percent of all cardholders, owe the library money, Ms. Bourne said. [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/us/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/us/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed.html) Well that will teach them not to be late in returning books, right? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/2 "2016-03-31T04:54:28Z")
So what is the library supposed to do? It appears to be located smack in the middle of an area where kids aren’t brought up to behave responsibly and return their books on time. Do you think the library should just let anyone and everyone take all the books they want and never return them? And if so, how do you propose the library is to continue functioning? Should the taxpayers just agree to an open house free book policy that endlessly supplies books to replace those that are never returned? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/3 "2016-03-31T05:25:03Z")
Don’t these libraries have an outside drop-off? All of the ones around here do. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/4 "2016-03-31T05:33:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you think the library should just let anyone and everyone take all the books they want and never return them? And if so, how do you propose the library is to continue functioning? Should the taxpayers just agree to an open house free book policy that endlessly supplies books to replace those that are never returned? Suppose a poor kid borrows several books and forgets to return them on time. He returns them a month late. He can not borrow any more books because of the big fine which has been built up. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/5 "2016-03-31T05:54:27Z")
It sounds like a huge percentage of the area’s kids have trouble remembering to return their books on time. It pretty much goes to what I said about responsible parenting. It isn’t that hard to get extensions on the check out times should the kids need more time before returning their books, and if returning them on time was more of a priority they probably wouldn’t have so much trouble remembering to return them. My guess is that most of them just blow off the need to return their books until such time as they find themselves needing another one, then they find that they’re out of luck until they pay the fine on the ones they’re returning. So again, what’s the library supposed to do? If it starts routinely dismissing fines it never will get it’s books back. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/6 "2016-03-31T06:09:07Z")
It’s called a book “loan”, not a gift. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/7 "2016-03-31T06:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > In San Jose, libraries began charging 50 cents a day for an overdue book, and what Jill Bourne, who become director of libraries in 2013, called “an exorbitant processing fee” of $20 for lost materials. Don’t most books cost more than $20 to replace? If so, how is that “exorbitant?” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/8 "2016-03-31T06:25:27Z")
I think, and I could be wrong, that they are charged the late fees, and a replacement cost, and the processing fee on top of that. So hypothetically, a late paperback, which only cost $8 or so, could end up costing $45 or more to replace. Yes, kids need to be responsible (or learn to be so), but in a poor and under-served area, I can understand why someone would find these policies unreasonable, or at least questionable. Perhaps there could be other ways that these kids could work off their processing fees? Volunteer at the library maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/9 "2016-03-31T06:26:25Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Don’t most books cost more than $20 to replace? If so, how is that “exorbitant?” The “processing fee” is [in addition to the cost of the lost item.](http://answers.sjlibrary.org/a.php?qid=638690) I am not claiming that it is exorbitant, there are considerable overhead costs in processing and obtaining new materials. I do not know whether $20 is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/10 "2016-03-31T06:52:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > . . . if returning them on time was more of a priority they probably wouldn’t have so much trouble remembering to return them. My guess is that most of them just blow off the need to return their books . . . I used to work for a university professor like that. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/11 "2016-03-31T10:22:33Z")
I think 50 cents a day is ridiculously high, but other than that, I’ll chime in on the side of, “What the hell else is the library supposed to do?” People can’t just keep library books with no repercussions. They just can’t. If the figure of 39% owe money is accurate, that indicates that it is a problem extending far beyond some neighborhoods. It’s a system wide problem, and it needs to be addressed in a way that preserves both books and readers. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/12 "2016-03-31T10:27:10Z")
Rich people should just pay extra taxes to pay for poor people to keep library books late or not return them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/13 "2016-03-31T11:27:01Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Rich people should just pay extra taxes to pay for poor people to keep library books late or not return them at all. Their are programs like RIF which give out free books plus you have these mini libraries popping up everywhere. The big issue might be the internet access. I know in our libraries the computers are usually packed with mostly people on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/14 "2016-03-31T11:45:42Z")
So, not “the poor,” finding the doors closed, but “the people that don’t return prior books on time and then don’t pay the fines.” Right? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/15 "2016-03-31T12:51:58Z")
It’s the _amount_ of the fine. We are not talking about chump change and it is far more than comparable library systems. It’s a self-defeating system. The goal of late fees is to gently nudge people to return things. Instead, people don’t return things at all and forgo using the library. That is what is known as a lose-lose situation. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/16 "2016-03-31T12:54:18Z")
But at least the rest of us get to feel smug and superior, and isn’t that really what’s important? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/17 "2016-03-31T14:57:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But at least the rest of us get to feel smug and superior, and isn’t that really what’s important? Damn skippy. And, can I borrow a book from you? I’ll give it right back. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/18 "2016-03-31T15:31:45Z")
I don’t much mind the library not loaning out books to people with outstanding fines. They can, after all, still read the books in the library so they’re not completely shut off to what the library offers in the way of books. I do feel that cutting off access to other non-loan services, such as computer use, is excessive and harmful to the public, especially to impoverished people who are not only less able to repay the fines but also unlikely to have many alternate sources for computer/internet use. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/19 "2016-03-31T15:33:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Damn skippy. > > And, can I borrow a book from you? I’ll give it right back. What do I look like - a library? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/20 "2016-03-31T15:42:34Z")
Is there any stop loss to the fines? I presume $.50/day only goes on for so long before it hits a maximum late fee. $20+cost to replace for lost items seems reasonable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694.md?page=2)