# In San Jose, Poor Find Doors to Library Closed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694 "2016-03-31T04:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/41 "2016-04-01T00:13:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nonetheless, society must forbid the theft of loaves of bread, a point that the people regurgitating this quote seem unable to grasp. That’s just crazy talk.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/42 "2016-04-01T00:36:52Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > My library is well beyond walking distance, we have no public transportation, and I don’t drive. > > Should I be exempted from, or have reduced, library fines? > > If not, why not? I’m not advocating for reduced fines. Just talking about how someone, especially kids, might have trouble returning books. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > How did you get stuck at this place?.. There are an infinite number of reasons that anyone can get stuck anywhere. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > If they really, truly can’t get to the library, they can take them to school and return them there. The school will make sure the books get back to the proper library. . . . Many grocery stores have return boxes too. . . . I had no idea that could be a return method. Cool. Someone asked about drop boxes earlier. We’ve got at least one library in our system that’s considering locking the drop boxes after hours. People are dumping dirt and worse into them and damaging the books. I also know one drop box that’s not really safe to visit after dark. This is not an excuse, and I’m still not advocating lowering fines. It’s just part of the mix. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/43 "2016-04-01T00:44:26Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > We’ve got at least one library in our system that’s considering locking the drop boxes after hours. People are dumping dirt and worse into them and damaging the books. :mad: Could they install a camera and find out who’s doing this? Our libraries’ drop boxes are connected to a conveyor belt with an electric eye that diverts books into the proper bins for each location, but I realize not everyone can do that. And that won’t help if it’s an off-site box. This kitten was tossed into a library drop box and found in the nick of time. > **[Dewey: The Small-Town Library Cat Who Touched the World: Vicki Myron:...](https://www.amazon.com/Dewey-Small-Town-Library-Touched-World/dp/B005GNJ8ZY)** > > Dewey: The Small-Town Library Cat Who Touched the World \[Vicki Myron\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Dewey: The Small-Town Library Cat Who Touched the World ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/44 "2016-04-01T00:53:37Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I’m not advocating for reduced fines. Just talking about how someone, especially kids, might have trouble returning books. If they are kids, isn’t it the parents’ responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/45 "2016-04-01T00:57:15Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > :mad: > > Could they install a camera and find out who’s doing this? Our libraries’ drop boxes are connected to a conveyor belt with an electric eye that diverts books into the proper bins for each location, but I realize not everyone can do that. And that won’t help if it’s an off-site box. > > This kitten was tossed into a library drop box and found in the nick of time. > > [http://www.amazon.com/Dewey-Small-Town-Library-Touched-World/dp/B005GNJ8ZY](http://www.amazon.com/Dewey-Small-Town-Library-Touched-World/dp/B005GNJ8ZY) Aww. Thanks for the link. That particular library is trying to work two sets of cameras (interior and exterior) into their budget, for other reasons, so that might end up happening. Eventually. Not for the book drop specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/46 "2016-04-01T02:58:38Z")
Is there a Book Mobile in the area? Maybe that would be a better idea. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/47 "2016-04-01T03:04:55Z")
Why is this a news story? This is how every library I’ve been part of has operated. You return a book late, you pay a daily fee (25 cents per day I think) and once you hit a certain amount you are barred from checking out anything else until you pay it off. I thought that was the standard? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/48 "2016-04-01T03:33:27Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Why is this a news story? This is how every library I’ve been part of has operated. You return a book late, you pay a daily fee (25 cents per day I think) and once you hit a certain amount you are barred from checking out anything else until you pay it off. I thought that was the standard? This library’s daily fee is higher, and they add an extra charge on top. And for this reason or another, they have a remarkably high proportion of ineligible cardholders. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/49 "2016-04-01T04:34:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If time and transportation are really the issue, how did they check out the materials in the first place? :dubious: Huh? You have unlimited time to initially get to the library since you’re not against any sort of clock. The issue is when the books are due back in a couple days and you have trouble lining up time and transportation before you’re getting fines. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/50 "2016-04-01T04:45:18Z")
Somehow I just don’t believe these people without transportation just can’t make it back to the library to return their books. I mean they initially got there somehow, some of you are acting like they must have taken two months of planning and encountered multiple failures before their first visit to the library. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/51 "2016-04-01T04:54:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Huh? You have unlimited time to initially get to the library since you’re not against any sort of clock. The issue is when the books are due back in a couple days and you have trouble lining up time and transportation before you’re getting fines. But you’ve had anywhere from two to four weeks (and longer with extensions) to know that deadline was coming up. And even if a scenario such as you suggest is the problem, a delay of a few days shouldn’t be enough to cause an overly onerous fine. At .50 cents a day, a student two days out could take as long as five days to arrange transportation to the library and he or she would still only owe $1.50. I’m sorry but I’m just not seeing lack of funds or transportation as a key element in the fact that almost 50% of this library’s child and teenage cardholders owe fines. Hell, 39% of its overall cardholder base including adults owes fines. Poverty is crushing and causes many ill effects, including poor attitudes about responsibility. But to blame the inordinately high number of people not returning books to this library on unusually high fine amounts or transportation difficulties is really grasping at straws. I’d wager that if someone were to offer any of these kids or their parents a million dollars if they could somehow get their books in on time, every last one of them would find some way to manage it. The problem isn’t really a lack of funds or transportation, it’s a problem of irresponsibility and cavalier attitudes about the need to return their books on time. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/52 "2016-04-01T04:55:21Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Someone asked about drop boxes earlier. We’ve got at least one library in our system that’s considering locking the drop boxes after hours. People are dumping dirt and worse into them and damaging the books. I also know one drop box that’s not really safe to visit after dark. When my parents lived in Danbury, CT (not a bad area) someone threw a lit cigarette in the drop box and it started a fire in the library. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/53 "2016-04-01T05:09:29Z")
Most libraries have had their budgets slashed to the phone in the past decade. They absolutely cannot afford to replace items that are not returned. It is necessary to have punitive measures to discourage their loss. Most libraries have some kind of framework in place to work with the borrowers. Food-for-Fines is an extremely common program where if they still have the materials they can bring them by with canned goods and the fine is waived- i’ve seen $80 worth of fines forgiven for less than two dollars with the canned goods. The primary purpose of food for fines, incidentally, is not so much to raise food for the local food bank or to give people an option to cash payment as it is to get library materials back because, see above, libraries can’t afford to replace them. I will admit that as a librarian I look the other way probably way more than I should when it comes to letting somebody use the computer even though they’re blocked. I would never disallow somebody from using it to apply for a job or other non-Facebook/absolutely necessary purpose, and rarely have I ever done so for recreational surfing; when I do it’s usually because of their attitude or behavior. I’m exactly the opposite when it comes to allowing them to check out items. If they have way overdue unreturned books I absolutely will not let them check anything else out, I don’t care if it’s for school or their kid or because a madman has their mom in the trunk of his car and is going to drive it over a cliff if she doesn’t bring him a large print copy of Marilu Henner’s diet book and ours is the only library n twelve states that has it, they’re not getting another book until the ones they borrowed two years ago have been returned or paid for. I will gladly work with them on the fines, or even the cost if They can’t find the books. I might wave that restocking fee ($20 is more than costs but it’s not as exorbitant as you might thing) or let them pay five dollars here and two dollars there until it’s all paid up, but I want my books back because, see above, I can’t afford to replace them. (Like many if not most senior librarians, I pay hundreds of dollars a year out of my own pocket for everything from books to office supplies that I want in the library for which there is no money. ) The only people to whom the doors are metaphorical locked are those who have been barred because of behavior. I don’t care if you’re at the library can thousand dollars, you’re perfectly free to come in and read the magazines or books on the shelves, you just can’t check them out. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/54 "2016-04-01T05:38:35Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Why is this a news story? This is how every library I’ve been part of has operated. You return a book late, you pay a daily fee (25 cents per day I think) and once you hit a certain amount you are barred from checking out anything else until you pay it off. I thought that was the standard? But you see, “the poor” are just not competent to behave as responsible members of society and honor commitments to return borrowed items in a timely manner. Only “the rich” can be expected to live up to such a high standard. (Ow, gotta stop stuffing my tongue so far into my cheek. I think I tasted earwax.) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/55 "2016-04-01T07:49:35Z")
While it’s true I have very little contact with elementary school children, I can’t believe that anyone else here does either, as it is my recollection that they are frequently forgetful and irresponsible–that they are not simply small adults. So after coming from the library you pass by the park where some friends are playing ball. You put the library books on a park bench and play. Time passes too rapidly; it’s suddenly late, so you run home so your mother doesn’t scold you–forgetting about the books. That night you suddenly remember them, rush back to the park–but someone has took them. The library wants $250. You don’t have that kind of money. So the appropriate punishment is that you can never check out a library book for the rest of your childhood? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/56 "2016-04-01T09:28:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So the appropriate punishment is that you can never check out a library book for the rest of your childhood? What’s the alternative, though? If they just keep throwing books down a _known_ black hole, very soon there will be no library. It would be nice if libraries had infinite money to buy books to give to children they know won’t bring the books back, but they don’t, and it would be nice if the government of Puerto Rico had the money to change that, but it [doesn’t.](http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/29/Everything-You-Need-Know-About-Puerto-Rico-Debt-Crisis) Working with scarce resources means making tough decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/57 "2016-04-01T09:45:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nonetheless, society must forbid the theft of loaves of bread, a point that the people regurgitating this quote seem unable to grasp. Congratulations, Counsellor; once again you have correctly stated the facts of the matter while deliberately ignoring the fucking point the quote, and “the people regurgitating” it, are making. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/58 "2016-04-01T10:59:34Z")
In the inner city libraries also often become a homeless hangout. Not that in itself is a problem. Most librarians seem fine if the homeless person doesnt just sleep there, make alot of nose, is too smelly, bother other patrons, or damages materials. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/59 "2016-04-01T11:02:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Huh? You have unlimited time to initially get to the library since you’re not against any sort of clock. The issue is when the books are due back in a couple days and you have trouble lining up time and transportation before you’re getting fines. I don’t think that time is really the issue, since most poor people don’t work full time. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/60 "2016-04-01T11:08:54Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Most libraries have had their budgets slashed to the phone in the past decade. … The bone phone no doubt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694.md?page=4)