# In San Jose, Poor Find Doors to Library Closed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694 "2016-03-31T04:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/141 "2016-04-06T17:37:15Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Obviously I mean if you don’t move. I was able to get a card in the same place, but I have moved since. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/142 "2016-04-06T19:45:44Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Effectively, the poor are the ones who are the most affected by these policies. The poor find it hardest to pay the fines, the poor rely more on the library for things like internet access, and so on. > . “The Poor” cant remember to bring the materials back on time or cant help but lose them? :dubious::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/143 "2016-04-06T21:01:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > At my library at least, you can also drop off books during hours the library was closed. Is that necessarily the case in San Jose? And anyway, who cares? The issue isn’t with why they didn’t drop the books off, it’s with what can they do to make up for it besides pay money they don’t have. A way to do that can be found. > [@](#): > > It seems like a lot of hoops for everyone to jump thru, based on the assumption that kids can’t be expected to bring their books back to the library on time. You see hoops, I see a teaching moment. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/144 "2016-04-06T21:16:45Z")
I see a teaching moment, too. I’m pretty sure it’s different from yours, though. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/145 "2016-04-06T21:31:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is that necessarily the case in San Jose? > > . Yes, they do have book drops. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/146 "2016-04-06T21:34:44Z")
There’s this thing with the left where it seems that any behavior by any politically protected group must be excused or defended. I’d be willing to bet that literally being too poor to find some way to get books returned on time accounts for no more than 2% of unreturned books, if that many. I’d also bet that youthful carelessness, apathy and lack of parental concern account for the vast majority. And I think deep down inside we all know that. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/147 "2016-04-06T21:47:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “The Poor” cant remember to bring the materials back on time or cant help but lose them? :dubious::rolleyes: Hasn’t everyone who used the library returned a book late, damaged one, or lost one? I think you’re assuming facts not in evidence here. Namely that the poor are worse at returning books than the non-poor. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/148 "2016-04-06T21:56:38Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Hasn’t everyone who used the library returned a book late, damaged one, or lost one? I think you’re assuming facts not in evidence here. Namely that the poor are worse at returning books than the non-poor. No, that’s apparently what **Roderick Femm** thinks. Not I. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/149 "2016-04-06T22:06:04Z")
**treis** , we’re not talking about the occassional late fee, but people racking up double-digit fines. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Agreed. But IMO, the solution isn’t to ban those kids, the solution is to find alternative channels for payment, like was indicated earlier - maybe working in the library, or somesuch. > > Also, to me, late fines and missing book fines shouldn’t be conflated. One is a lot worse than the other, and a way of working off the former shouldn’t be as onerous as the latter. Which to me sounds like a great idea. In fact, I think it sounds like it would be a great opportunity for the kids regardless of them having fines to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/150 "2016-04-06T22:43:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There’s this thing with the left where it seems that any behavior by any politically protected group must be excused or defended. I’d be willing to bet that literally being too poor to find some way to get books returned on time accounts for no more than 2% of unreturned books, if that many. I’d also bet that youthful carelessness, apathy and lack of parental concern account for the vast majority. > > And I think deep down inside we all know that. No, it’s “there’s this problem here and the current solution isn’t working. Let’s try and come up with something else.” No need to blame the “left” or whatever. I’m assuming you’re familiar with the old saying about trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results? If you have a better idea, by all means, tell us. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/151 "2016-04-07T05:28:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No, it’s “there’s this problem here and the current solution isn’t working. Let’s try and come up with something else.” No, it’s more like there’s this problem here but we can’t speak of it because that would be hating on the poor, so let’s ignore it and pretend something else is the problem and try to come up with solutions for that instead. The flaw in such an approach should be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/152 "2016-04-07T06:12:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, it’s more like there’s this problem here but we can’t speak of it because that would be hating on the poor, so let’s ignore it and pretend something else is the problem and try to come up with solutions for that instead. > > The flaw in such an approach should be obvious. AKA, “I have nothing, but I just like to pretend it’s a liberal vs. conservative thing.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/153 "2016-04-07T08:55:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > TI’d also bet that youthful carelessness, apathy and lack of parental concern account for the vast majority. Even agreed that that is the case (and I do), the problem is that a _strictly_ monetary strategy for dealing with the problem is not going to have positive outcomes for kids in poverty, especially. Also, I think it’s wrong to group the parental disinvolvement with carelessness and apathy. I’d group it with the poverty effects rather than the “being a kid” effects. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/154 "2016-04-07T13:51:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And anyway, who cares? The issue isn’t with why they didn’t drop the books off, it’s with what can they do to make up for it besides pay money they don’t have. A way to do that can be found. Who cares? I assume anyone who wants to find a workable solution cares. And my question is the same as always - does the reason they didn’t drop the books off also apply to the reason why they won’t or can’t do community service? So I borrow some books, and I don’t bring them back for six months, and I have a fine I can’t pay. I didn’t return them because [ul][li]I’m poor[/li][li]I don’t have a car[/li][li]I don’t have a bicycle[/li][li]I am working three part-time jobs[/li][li]My parents don’t let me out of the basement more than once a week[/li][li]Whatever[/ul][/li]So now, because I can’t afford to pay the fine, I can work it off by cleaning the library for two afternoons, or picking up trash in the park, or visiting the elderly, or some kind of community service like that. How can I possibly make it to the library, or the park, or the nursing home? Because [ul][li]I’m poor[/li][li]I don’t have a car[/li][li]I don’t have a bicycle[/li][li]I am working three part-time jobs[/li][li]My parents don’t let me out of the basement more than once a week[/li][li]Whatever[/ul]So the reason why you can’t return the books does matter, because it is going to matter if you are supposed to work off the fine instead of pay it.[/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/155 "2016-04-07T15:11:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the reason why you can’t return the books does matter, because it is going to matter if you are supposed to work off the fine instead of pay it. Not if the reason is, as was said, carelessness or apathy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/156 "2016-04-07T16:32:28Z")
So they are too careless and apathetic to bring the books back on time, but not so apathetic and careless that they won’t do their community service? _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/157 "2016-04-07T17:06:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So they are too careless and apathetic to bring the books back on time, but not so apathetic and careless that they won’t do their community service? > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan The fact that I am agreeing with you so strongly in this thread distresses me. Please say something insulting about Hillary Clinton or complimentary about SUPERMAN VERSUS BATMAN so I can feel normal. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/158 "2016-04-07T18:41:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So they are too careless and apathetic to bring the books back on time, but not so apathetic and careless that they won’t do their community service? Oh, sorry, I was unaware that there was no way of, say, _overseeing_ that service gets done. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/159 "2016-04-07T18:45:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So I borrow some books, and I don’t bring them back for six months, and I have a fine I can’t pay. I didn’t return them because > [list][li]I’m poor[/li][li]I don’t have a car[/li][li]I don’t have a bicycle[/li][li]I am working three part-time jobs[/li][li]My parents don’t let me out of the basement more than once a week[/li] list][li]I’m poor[/li][li]I don’t have a car[/li][li]I don’t have a bicycle[/li][li]I am working three part-time jobs[/li][li]My parents don’t let me out of the basement more than once a week[/li] _How did you get there to borrow the books in the first place?_ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694/160 "2016-04-07T19:02:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, sorry, I was unaware that there was no way of, say, _overseeing_ that service gets done. I’m sure there is. Perhaps we could apply that method, whatever it is, so as to ensure that people get their books back on time. > [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > The fact that I am agreeing with you so strongly in this thread distresses me. I haven’t seen _Batman vs. Superman_, and if Trump gets the nomination of the GOP, I may vote for Hillary. So when you fully recover your strength, and Skald Enterprises resumes its inexorable march towards dominion of the multi-verse, perhaps you will consider my resume. I am good with flying monkeys and robot succubi, and I work cheap. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-san-jose-poor-find-doors-to-library-closed/750694.md?page=9)