Effectively, the poor are the ones who are the most affected by these policies. The poor find it hardest to pay the fines, the poor rely more on the library for things like internet access, and so on.
This doesn’t change the need for borrowers to be responsible, but a punitive approach like this one doesn’t seem to be appropriate. A library exists to serve all the public, including the poor.
Perhaps a graduated system of fees, with a very low penalty for the first late book, then a little more for each additional late book up to the maximum fee that they are now charging, would be effective in teaching this lesson that, perhaps, the borrowers never got at home. Libraries are all computerized now, surely, so this should be relatively easy to administer.
The phrase “penny wise and pound foolish” comes to mind here. Dopers seem to favor saving a few dollars on the loss of library books vs spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the massive societal loss when a child switches from reading library books to joining gangs and starting a lifetime of crime and unemployment.
The part I must have missed is how being poor makes it more difficult to return library materials on time.
Poor people generally have less time and transportation in general but I think the bigger issue is that the fines place a much larger barrier between them and a beneficial educational/cultural institution than they do for a middle or upper class patron. Since education and culture are a couple things we should value as a society (particularly if we’re looking to raise the status of people), the size of that barrier can be troubling.
“In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.” -Anatole France, 1894.
The public library system where I live used to have a program where children could “work” off their fines by attending library run educational programs or reading in the library’s reading room.
They were also very good about reducing fines on a case by case basis and/or putting people on extended payment plans. The book fines were very reasonable, a dime a day, IIRC and they maxed at the cover price of the book. People usually got into trouble over DVDs because the fine on those was a dollar a day per item.
Trouble is a book can cost $5 or $50 so you might have to restrict what books are checked out. Actually library books tend to be more expensive because they have better binding.
Go to a poor, inner city school and this is also why you dont see them check out textbooks to the students. The kids lose them almost overnight and they never see them again and the school is out a $50 textbook.
So, reading the article linked in the OP, I note this:
You have a library director actively trying to change the fines policy, and I think that’s good. What I hope is if they are able to change it that they’re able to reduce or eliminate the fines that people owe when that happens.
I know often library systems will do a “food for fines”, where patrons are able to bring in non-perishable goods in exchange for their fines, with the food going to a food pantry. How well does that work, I wonder, for patrons who may be getting food from pantries themselves. I don’t know - I’m a librarian, but I’m in an academic library, albeit one where many of our students get Pell grants and most, if not all, of them work. At $10 our students are blocked from checking books out, from registering for classes and from requesting transcripts.
Sorry, I just can’t work up any outrage on behalf of people who cannot return a library book on time. You have 30 days to return a book. A simple phone call will extend a book’s return time by another 30 day period. If you cannot manage to return a book under these uh, “extremely onerous restrictions”, then frankly I don’t think you deserve the library’s services. That includes internet time. If these sorts of things are frighteningly heavy restrictions to you, I suggest you read a book in the library without checking it out and you will never encounter a problem with forgetting to return a book.
I love books and I just can’t abide by people who use and abuse the system in such a way, because it will make it difficult for everybody else to enjoy books. It goes on long enough and the library closes from lack of books or lack of funds, and then everybody is screwed. So yes, I’m fine with letting these irresponsible people stay out of the library until they learn some respect and responsibility.
ETA: I am fine with other ways to work off debt, even the “read in the library to pay off your debt” structure shown at the end of the article. But they must be held accountable in some way.
This is true. Every child who has not read a book from the library is now in a gang, committing crimes and is unemployed.
If time and transportation are really the issue, how did they check out the materials in the first place? :dubious:
Reliable transportation is the issue. Well, one of the issues.
I was temporarily “staff” at a university and found out that staff can check out books for a quarter, then renew them for another quarter by submitting a list of the ones they want to keep. It was sweet.
IIRC (and I might not RC) it was ten cents a day in 1960. Plug that into a converter and you get 81 cents a day in 2016 dollars. So there hasn’t been a change in scope, just in inflation.
They’re computerized, but they buy the software and I suspect that’s not going to be one of the standard changable fields. It would require new software or re-programing, which is usually pricy. And political. Other departments could use the money, too.
It’s hard to guess how much it would cost, because nobody posts prices, but I’d guess $20 - $50k for a conversion, less if it’s a small city. That’s 4 to 10 wheelchair ramps. Or 250 to 650 feet of sidewalk replacement.
And people who have trouble returning things would still reach the point where they couldn’t pay. It’s not like any of us plan to run up fines or lose books.
Does it have to be either/or? Because I hear the Bugs Meanies are recruiting.
2 cents a day. YMMV.
The amount of time is also variable. 2 weeks when I was kid. It’s 3 weeks for our current library.
I really don’t understand the harshness of the “Just return it on time!” crowd here. People make mistakes.
In particular, children are frequently dependent on others for transport. If a kid finds that no one is willing to take them to the library to return a book, should the kid be punished?
A lot of people don’t live in ideal circumstances. It isn’t the same Universe for them and you.
My library is well beyond walking distance, we have no public transportation, and I don’t drive.
Should I be exempted from, or have reduced, library fines?
If not, why not?
How did you get stuck at this place?
If it is all you can afford then you will not have as convenient a life as others.
How do you get food? Go to the doctor?
If I sail around the world, what does that exempt me from ?? My car just does not work during that time.
You have no friends that drive?
If you are challenged in some way, there are free programs just for you.
Just curious…
Nonetheless, society must forbid the theft of loaves of bread, a point that the people regurgitating this quote seem unable to grasp.
If they really, truly can’t get to the library, they can take them to school and return them there. The school will make sure the books get back to the proper library. At least, that’s what happens here; likewise, the city library I volunteer at gets school library books returned to us all the time. Our driver has a route, and they will get back to where they belong.
Many grocery stores have return boxes too.
I suspect there’s a lot more going on here. Another library in town, where I often go to a meetup, borders on a neighborhood that has several really bad apartment buildings, and there’s a trailer in the parking lot that is also a police substation. More than once, I have seen the (unarmed) security guard, and often the librarian too, escorting young children out who are causing all kinds of trouble. These kids are almost always less than 10 years old, and I have never seen any of these troublemaking kids with any older children or adults.
(I had heard that this neighborhood was suddenly experiencing a drastic increase in crime and gang activity. I drove down the specific street that has been troublesome - and was told by more than one person that I had risked my life by doing so, even though it was in broad daylight :eek: - and I could tell which buildings they were talking about. There are several buildings that are owned by slumlords that are not Section 8 but allow anyone to move in as long as they have the first month’s rent, and those buildings are in such poor condition, nobody would voluntarily live there if they could afford any other place.)