# In SF Award News: Hugos Still Controversial **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [January 23, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538 "2024-01-23T12:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/41 "2024-01-26T15:34:24Z")
OK, that last one I agree with. Face it, half the fun is arguing over these things. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/42 "2024-01-26T17:05:16Z")
Both of these do technically fall into the “not meeting the technical requirements” reason for being disqualified. I had not known that “The Lady Astronaut of Mars” had previously been published as an audio piece. It’s been a while since I’ve looked at the requirements for the various Hugo categories, but I seem to remember that “previous presentation under another form” is one of the rules. The Silmarillon exclusion was another case of this, although as stated in the link you provided it was rather pedantic. I haven’t nominated or voted for the Hugos in years, primarily because for various reasons I don’t have time to read a sufficient number of works in the field to make a reasoned judgement. But I do follow the results. I will be interested in knowing (assuming the information is ever released) why these works were disqualified. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/43 "2024-01-26T18:34:35Z")
It seems unlikely they will release the information; they’ve been stonewalling since the first. Another oddity is the delay in releasing the information. Most worldcons give out the voting results within days of the ceremony (sometimes the very next day). This time, they waited three months - the final deadline set for them to release the data. The question is why? There were no votes after the ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/44 "2024-01-26T20:27:15Z")
The Human Rights Foundation has weighed in on the matter, talking about how they got the nomination and used Worldcon to promote Chinese industry and ideals. [Worldconned: How China Co-Opted Sci-Fi’s Crown Jewel Amidst the Uyghur Genocide - Human Rights Foundation (hrf.org)](https://hrf.org/worldconned-how-china-co-opted-sci-fis-crown-jewel-amidst-the-uyghur-genocide/) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/45 "2024-01-26T20:58:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Human Rights Foundation has weighed in on the matter, talking about how they got the nomination and used Worldcon to promote Chinese industry and ideals. So, that org is a contradiction in terms? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/46 "2024-01-26T20:59:39Z")
What? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/47 "2024-01-26T20:59:46Z")
“They” is not the HRF in that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/48 "2024-01-26T21:01:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What? If you are in favor of Human rights, you can not be in favor of (current) Chinese ideals. (despotism, no free press, slave labor, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/49 "2024-01-26T21:02:57Z")
“They” is referencing the Chinese Chengdu bidders. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/50 "2024-01-26T21:03:30Z")
Thank you, but your sentence hardly made that clear. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/51 "2024-01-26T21:06:27Z")
_If only_ there was a link in that post, that made the HRF’s position on the Chinese human rights record abundantly clear just from the link title, never mind the actual link content. Alas, there wasn’t, so we’ll never know… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/52 "2024-01-26T21:07:45Z")
Pronoun trouble! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/53 "2024-01-26T21:11:33Z")
I think that there should be a basic human rights standard bidders have to agree to beforehand before the bid is even accepted, and that the bidder has to show that such a standard cannot be overruled by local, state or national laws. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/54 "2024-01-26T23:09:32Z")
I concur. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/55 "2024-01-27T00:56:29Z")
There are other cases of stories which first appeared in audio format that were nevertheless nominated for fiction Hugo awards vice dramatic Hugo awards; Kowal’s discussion [here](https://maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/perhaps-you-noticed-that-my-novelette-lady-astronaut-of-mars-had-enough-nominations-to-make-the-hugo-ballot/). Even the administrators thought it was an edge case. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/56 "2024-01-27T20:59:02Z")
I wasn’t aware that Audible did stories in audio before they were in print. I don’t do audio books, and always thought that they were versions of books that had already appeared in print. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/57 "2024-01-28T05:10:34Z")
Charlie speaks: [https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2024/01/worldcon-in-the-news.html](https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2024/01/worldcon-in-the-news.html) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/58 "2024-01-28T07:45:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Charlie speaks: and what did he say and who is Charlie? Why a naked link without a quote from it? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/59 "2024-01-28T07:57:28Z")
This is a great description: > The important thing to note is that **the “worldcon” is \*not a permanent organization**. It’s more like a virus that latches onto an SF convention, infects it with worldcon-itis, runs the Hugo awards and the WSFS business meeting, then selects a new convention to parasitize the year after next. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/60 "2024-01-28T08:11:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and what did he say and who is Charlie? Why a naked link without a quote from it? Blame Discord for not making a preview box. But anyone who follows the SF fandom community likely had no problem recognizing the domain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=4)