# In SF Award News: Hugos Still Controversial **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [January 23, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538 "2024-01-23T12:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/61 "2024-01-28T09:28:34Z")
I didn’t recognize the name or domain, and I have been active in fandom since 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/62 "2024-01-28T09:36:22Z")
Then congratulations, you have stumbled across a large archive of informed and informative posts with extensive conversations including big players in fandom and big name writers. Along with File770 and Whatever, it is one of THE big blogs in sf fandom, from one of the top voices in modern science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/63 "2024-01-28T12:25:53Z")
For the love of God. It’s Charlie Stross, and here’s a key quote: > The world science fiction convention coevolved with fan-run volunteer conventions in societies where there’s a general expectation of the rule of law and most people abide by social norms irrespective of enforcement. The WSFS constitution isn’t enforceable except insofar as normally fans see no reason _not_ to abide by the rules. So it works okay in the USA, the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and all the other western-style democracies it’s been held in … but broke badly when a group of enthusiasts living in an authoritarian state won the bid then realized too late that by doing so they’d come to the attention of Very Important People who didn’t care about their society’s rulebook. This is how you give a link. Link, tell where it’s to, and give a key breakout quote. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/64 "2024-01-28T12:54:53Z")
The Worldcon has been held so far in the countries of (in alphabetical order) Australia, Canada, China, Finland, Ireland, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, the U.K., the U.S., and West Germany. Suppose you ignore the Worldcons held up to 1969, which were all in the U.S. except for one in Canada. Since 1970, they have been pretty much spread out among those countries, with more held in the countries with larger populations. The next two will be in Glasgow and Seattle. The one after that will probably be held in Los Angeles. If there are countries that you don’t want it to be held in, join all of them from now on, either as an attending member or a non-attending member, and vote against the ones bidding to be the Worldcon from those countries. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/65 "2024-01-28T12:58:23Z")
Look at the Wikipedia entry on Worldcon years and locations which I posted above. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/66 "2024-01-28T13:40:55Z")
Please avoid barelinks without some comment or context. **Moderating** ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/67 "2024-01-28T14:17:06Z")
If you go to read the Charlie Stross blog post, read the comments as well, they are interesting. Some additional information, some clarifying comments, some disagreement with how Charlie framed things. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/68 "2024-01-28T20:57:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is how you give a link. Link, tell where it’s to, and give a key breakout quote. Thank you! I try to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/69 "2024-01-29T00:21:08Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I wasn’t aware that Audible did stories in audio before they were in print. I don’t do audio books, and always thought that they were versions of books that had already appeared in print. Yeah, I don’t do audio either, so it’s annoying when some authors made deals to have stories appear first in audioform before becoming available in other ways (like this one [The Dispatcher - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispatcher)) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/70 "2024-01-29T00:24:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Then congratulations, you have stumbled across a large archive of informed and informative posts with extensive conversations including big players in fandom and big name writers He’s not wrong - I wish he blogged more; lots of interesting material about how the book industry works, and how his process works. (P.S. I miss “Making Light” which used to a major blog for SF news (fortunately, the archives still exist (classic post here [Making Light: Another ABM on Amazon](http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011997.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/71 "2024-02-01T01:08:21Z")
Heads are rolling on the US side. > **[Worldcon Intellectual Property Announces Censure of McCarty, Chen Shi and...](https://file770.com/worldcon-intellectual-property-announces-censure-of-mccarty-chen-shi-and-yalow-mccarty-resigns-eastlake-is-new-chair/)** > > Worldcon Intellectual Property (W.I.P.) is the California non-profit corporation that holds the service marks of the World Science Fiction Society (www.wsfs.org) including the mark “Hugo Award”. In the midst of social media discussions about the... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/72 "2024-02-01T01:30:07Z")
I am involved with the Seattle Worldcon 2025 group, and I am betting that the guest lists for both the Glasgow 2024 Con and the Seattle 2025 Con are being revised as news about this fiasco comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/73 "2024-02-03T00:06:55Z")
Impressive writeup in Esquire. > **[Inside the Censorship Scandal That Rocked Sci-Fi and Fantasy's Biggest Awards](https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a46612912/science-fiction-hugo-awards-2024/)** > > Last week, the Hugo Awards melted down over unexplained disqualifications. Insiders tell Esquire what really happened—and what it could mean for the future of literary awards. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/74 "2024-02-15T03:10:47Z")
File 770 just posted the most thorough report to date on what happened with the Hugos. It is pretty long, but not boring, and it covers most of what happened: > **[The 2023 Hugo Awards: A Report on Censorship and Exclusion - File 770](https://file770.com/the-2023-hugo-awards-a-report-on-censorship-and-exclusion/?fbclid=IwAR1QFOUAhMMTkU9wpooSdxthOh5xD82ael2OcI0fbZoM6l6H7hsvRSzB3n0)** > > This report is being released simultaneously on File770 and Genre Grapevine and is also available to download as an e-book epub file and as a PDF. By Chris M. Barkley and Jason Sanford “You acquire information and you convey the information. That’s... ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/75 "2024-02-15T03:32:56Z")
Oops, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/76 "2024-02-15T04:37:15Z")
So China found useful idiots to do their dirty work for them in the US and Canada. But not especially competent idiots, as people have pointed out multiple mistakes in the political dossiers they compiled. (Not mentioned is how they made Robert J. Sawyer a guest of honor when he has–as I pointed out earlier in this thread–written fiction extremely critical of the Chinese government.) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/77 "2024-02-16T19:08:33Z")
They should just end the Hugos. They have been so politicized that every year there are more stories about the scancals around the Hugos than about the winners. Does anyone even care anymore who wins a Hugo? Does it move books? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/78 "2024-02-16T19:32:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Does it move books? It does not. From Charles Stross: _A Hugo means increased book sales/revenue for both the publisher and the author_ Ha ha nope! Some time circa 2005-2010 I asked my then-editor at Ace, Ginjer Buchanan (who has now retired), what the most useful SF/F literary awards were. She chuckled, then replied to the effect that none of them were worth a bucket of warm spit _except_ for (a) the Philip K. Dick and Arthur C. Clarke awards (because they came with a cheque for the winner) and the Prometheus Award (which comes with a plaque bearing a 1 Troy ounce 23 carat gold coin), and (b) the Hugo for best novel (and only best novel), which doesn’t sell more copies, _but_ Hugo-winning novels tend to stay in print longer. “Stay in print longer” is, however, no longer a Thing, because if you’re trad-published through a Big Five imprint since roughly 2005 _your books do not ever go out of print availability via the ebook distribution channels_. You can only go out of print if your publisher fucked up and you or your agent can find a loophole in the contract to force reversion of rights. With the exception of indie/small press titles, _all my books remain in print_, right back to 2003. Including the non-Hugo nominated ones. [http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2024/01/worldcon-in-the-news.html#comment-2183717](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2024/01/worldcon-in-the-news.html#comment-2183717) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/79 "2024-02-16T19:45:33Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Some time circa 2005-2010 I asked my then-editor at Ace, Ginjer Buchanan (who has now retired), what the most useful SF/F literary awards were. When I had her as my Editor Guest Of Honor at Orycon 30, she spoke on this subject and said pretty much the same thing. By the way, she was a delightful guest in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/80 "2024-02-16T20:59:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They should just end the Hugos. They have been so politicized that every year there are more stories about the scancals around the Hugos than about the winners. > > Does anyone even care anymore who wins a Hugo? Does it move books? [John Scalzi has (not surprisingly) addressed the controversy on his “Whatever” blog.](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2024/02/15/the-2023-hugo-fraud-and-where-we-go-from-here/) > [@](#): > > I’ll end on a personal note here. I made my first Hugo finalist list in 2006. It had a huge impact in my visibility in the science fiction and fantasy world and on the course of my career. … My Hugos mean something to me. They mean something to lives and careers of the people who win them. The Hugos mean something to the community. > > People are always in a rush to declare the Hugos “over” or irrelevant, especially when people go out of their way to damage them or their reputation. … What keeps the Hugos relevant is the choice of people who love and value science fiction and fantasy to make it so. And that means making sure the Hugos are robust and resilient, and up to the times. Not just in who and what gets nominated and becomes a finalist, but in how they are administered, and how they move through the culture of science fiction and the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=5)