# In SF Award News: Hugos Still Controversial **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [January 23, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538 "2024-01-23T12:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/81 "2024-02-18T19:49:38Z")
FWIW: > **[Glasgow Worldcon Apologizes for 'Damage' Caused by 2023 Hugo Awards Controversy](https://gizmodo.com/hugo-awards-2023-eligibility-controversy-apology-china-1851261196)** > > The statement from the sci-fi and fantasy awards came after a lengthy investigation into the exclusion of R.F. Kuang's Babel and others at Chengdu Worldcon. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/82 "2024-02-18T20:07:56Z")
The apology itself is a bit of a shame - they’re apologizing for things they had no control over and weren’t involved in. The Glasgow Worldcon is a separate, independent entity and they’re making sure nobody involved in Chengdu is part of Glasgow. It’s a virtual certainty Seattle will do the same as well. But kudos to them for working to clean up the mess other people (Dave McCarty with the lion’s share) made. Really, what needs to happen is more centralization on the awards administration. Each Worldcon can continue to be operated independently but that contract needs to be awarded with additional rules and restrictions on the awards to ensure openness and independence of the nominations, verification, and award. As for the relevance of the Hugos, I don’t see how there have been more and more scandals every year. There was the few years the Puppies tried to politicize them, and the community put an end to that. And obviously people still care. That’s almost something Yogi Berra might have said - yeah, nobody cares about the Hugos, but people care enough about them they think it’s worth politicizing them? That notion is nonsensical on its own face. The very fact people try to manipulate them is itself evidence they are still relevant, regardless of the effect on sales. As for the current crew, the worst part of the mess is that the Chinese government didn’t even get involved. It was the administrators of the award pre-emptively deciding they didn’t want problems and creating their own as a result. And even worse, they did it so ineptly they got caught almost immediately. And also galling is the non-apology (apologizing for acting like a jerk - not for rigging the awards) by McCarty. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/83 "2024-02-18T20:23:02Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > they’re apologizing for things they had no control over and weren’t involved in. The Glasgow Worldcon is a separate, independent entity and they’re making sure nobody involved in Chengdu is part of Glasgow Only by having Kat Jones resign. The biggest loser out of all of this is Chinese fandom, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/84 "2024-02-18T22:05:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Only by having Kat Jones resign. Well, yes, there wasn’t a whole lot of overlap in the broader Worldcon committees. Is the suggestion that they should all resign despite not being involved in Chengdu? That is, of course, separate from the WSFS, which administers the awards. So, yes, it’s a good thing that the Glasgow organizers are taking this seriously, but they really weren’t involved and it is a shame that they, rather than the people actually responsible, are having to be the ones who publicly apologize and clean up after them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/85 "2024-02-19T05:40:53Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > . Is the suggestion that they should all resign despite not being involved in Chengdu? No, I’m saying if she hadn’t resigned (and she didn’t do so immediately, only _after_ the extent of her involvement was made apparent. \*), there would still have been a strong connection between Chengdu and Glasgow, as she was the Hugos Administrator for 2024. \* And [her last word on things](https://file770.com/2023-hugo-awards-related-statement-by-kat-jones/) was shitty, too, more calling out the whistleblowing and washing her hands than showing any remorse. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/86 "2024-02-20T22:11:55Z")
[![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGz7R-aWQAAe9fa?format=png&name=900x900) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGz7R-aWQAAe9fa?format=png&name=900x900) I’ll take “Acts that would count as treason if there was a war on” for 200 quatloos. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/87 "2024-02-20T22:26:49Z")
Just when you think all the shit has hit that fan, another turd pops out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/88 "2024-02-20T22:53:17Z")
What a remarkable display of cowardice and responsibility-ducking. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/89 "2024-02-20T23:20:41Z")
If you’re going to be an international organization, make sure you have representation and counsel familiar with international issues. You can be a REALLY smart person and still have no idea of the pitfalls that await. Yes, professional representation can be expensive, but that’s because that knowledge is worth it. With that said, I suspect they’ll get a slap on the wrist or a minor fine. It’s in nobody’s best interests to make this a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/90 "2024-02-20T23:39:39Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > With that said, I suspect they’ll get a slap on the wrist or a minor fine I was thinking exile to the Phantom Zone myself. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/91 "2024-02-20T23:45:55Z")
> **[Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)** > > The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution protects against imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. This amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the United States Bill of Rights. The amendment serves as a limitation upon the state or federal government to impose unduly harsh penalties on criminal defendants before and after a conviction. This limitation applies equally to the price for obtaining pretria... The Phantom Zone seems like you’re making it “a thing”.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/92 "2024-02-20T23:51:04Z")
What makes it cruel and unusual? They never go hungry, they can’t be harmed, their health will be perfect and they are free to roam their entire universe. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/93 "2024-02-20T23:55:19Z")
They can’t argue with people on the internet about why _this_ book was better/more deserving than _that_ book? As is their God-given\* right! \* Your god may be different than mine or not exist at all. IMHO, YMMV, IANAT, nothing matters anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/94 "2024-02-21T00:51:29Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > - Your god may be different than mine or not exist at all. IMHO, YMMV, IANAT, nothing matters anyway. Yahweh’s mileage may vary? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/95 "2024-02-21T00:54:57Z")
I Am Not an Acolyte of Tiamet? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/96 "2024-02-21T00:55:35Z")
I was considering trying them in the courts of the Post-Atomic Horror where the 8th amendment doesn’t apply ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/97 "2024-02-21T03:38:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yahweh’s mileage may vary? 🙂 Only if you believe in Yahweh and who am I to insist that you do that? > [@silenus](#): > > I Am Not an Acolyte of Tiamet? I Am Not A Theologist, but I think I like your answer better. > [@Smapti](#): > > I was considering trying them in the courts of the Post-Atomic Horror where the 8th amendment doesn’t apply But…then wouldn’t you have to have the Atomic Horror first? Not sure I can support that plan nor would I like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/98 "2024-02-21T04:19:40Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > But…then wouldn’t you have to have the Atomic Horror first? Well, I suppose we could try to use our foreknowledge to stop the Atomic Horror from happening, but then 29st century Starfleet is gonna be all over us and I hate dealing with those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/99 "2024-02-24T15:17:37Z")
Apparently there’s a new controversy, or new layer to the controversy. I first heard about it in this video [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RwEvKNpoRHk/maxresdefault.jpg "How is this so much worse? ~Hugo's NEW Scandal~") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwEvKNpoRHk) which references this blog post > **[The 2023 Hugo Awards: Somehow, It Got Worse](https://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2024/02/the-2023-hugo-awards-somehow-it-got.html)** > > The last month has been a busy one in Hugo and Worldcon fandom. After the shock of the much-belated 2023 nominating stats, and their revelat... but here, I think, is the gist: > [@](#): > > hundreds, perhaps even thousands of valid, legal nominating ballots were dropped from the final nominating stats, apparently under the pretext of having represented a slate, even though slates are perfectly legal under the Hugo rules. This was done on the orders of the Hugo administrator, with apparently no outside input or discussion, and appears to have elicited so little response from the Hugo team that they are casually mentioning it as if it’s nothing. If these numbers are correct, it’s entirely possible that the whole Hugo ballot should have looked completely different, and that none of the eventual winners in the fiction categories should have even been nominated. > > What this means is that the entire 2023 Hugo scandal is something completely different from what we’ve understood it as during the last month. Appalling as it is, the choice to screen English-language nominees for ideological compatibility may, in fact, be a sideshow to the real scandal, which is that hundreds of Chinese voters have been disenfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538/100 "2024-07-23T22:01:48Z")
And now there’s a scandal surrounding the 2024 Hugos. The subcommittee announced that 377 votes were disqualified after apparently being fraudulently paid for to help one finalist win. Not what the Hugos needed right now. > **[Hugo awards organisers reveal thousands spent on fraudulent votes to help one...](https://amp.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/jul/23/hugo-awards-fraudulent-votes-paid-for-one-author-ntwnfb)** > > The science fiction and fantasy prize says it has culled 377 votes mostly for ‘Finalist A’, who will not be disqualified as there is no proof they were aware [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-sf-award-news-hugos-still-controversial/996538.md?page=6)