# In Soviet Russia, Mafia plays you! (Forbidden Thread for Glasnost Mafia -- No Players!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 22, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259 "2011-02-22T18:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/1 "2011-02-22T18:33:05Z")
For unspoiled discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/2 "2011-02-22T19:25:47Z")
Sheesh, why oh why does **Pleonast** always do that? He always says that it’s to give the Scum some uncertainty in whether he’s really vanilla or not, but the way you do that is by _keeping your mouth shut_. Saying what you are _decreases_ the Scum’s uncertainty, not increases it. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/3 "2011-02-22T19:36:51Z")
Pleo didn’t claim VT right off the bat in the last game. I think somebody picked up on that by Day 2 and stomped on him. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/4 "2011-02-23T01:14:17Z")
The first time I saw the vanilla townie on day one claim, i was like WTF. But in reality everyone in the game is implicitly claiming the same thing, he’s not doing anything that everyone else isn’t already doing. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/5 "2011-02-23T01:18:49Z")
Was wondering about this. Saw Glasnost took off pretty fast. Let’s see how the other half lives, and ride this one out in here. Oh, and also, I’m kinda busy with something else around these parts too. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/6 "2011-02-23T01:24:58Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > The first time I saw the vanilla townie on day one claim, i was like WTF. But in reality everyone in the game is implicitly claiming the same thing, he’s not doing anything that everyone else isn’t already doing. I just have to read this thread to gather the info. Pleonast is claiming again? You would have thought he would have learned. I mean, I understand your argument completely, Skeezix, but I think Cookies [IIRC] brings up a good point from Hotel, it kinda gets away from the spirit of the game. Perhaps it was Storyteller. The point remains, most people, I would assume, want to PLAY the game. There is a good reason why Dealers reveal exposed cards to everyone at the table… it is precisely so that you cannot straddle the field and pour this big glass of wine. Town can’t pour wine, you say? Pleonast does it every single time he claims VT truthfully. Part of me wonders if there are actually better was for us as a group to play Mafia. I think that part started packing up with other parts of me, to make way of the parts of me more present in Hotel. That is to say, I think I, and we in general accept a given level of suck in our Mafia play. Almost as if we play Mafia with a “Good enough for government work” attitude. \*\*I don’t like it, but I can’t stop Pleonast for doing it. Apparently voting for him doesn’t faze him. Not that I have the luxury of doing that this time around. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/7 "2011-02-23T03:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The first time I saw the vanilla townie on day one claim, i was like WTF. But in reality everyone in the game is implicitly claiming the same thing, he’s not doing anything that everyone else isn’t already doing. Claiming vanilla is not the same thing as not claiming, since (if we take as a given that townies won’t or at least shouldn’t lie) town power roles will never claim vanilla, but they will keep quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/8 "2011-02-23T13:53:46Z")
Sachertorte’s “inner dialogue” thingie about Pleonast cracks me up. Points for amusing me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/9 "2011-02-23T13:55:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Claiming vanilla is not the same thing as not claiming, since (if we take as a given that townies won’t or at least shouldn’t lie) town power roles will never claim vanilla, but they will keep quiet. I’m not sure that should be an absolute. I think GLaDOS put it best… I think there are times Power Town should “enhance” the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/10 "2011-02-23T13:57:07Z")
RANDOM IDEA : \*\* Do you guys think that a Plants Vs Zombies Mafia could work? \*\* Vanilla Town = Sunflowers Doc = Tall Nut Etc. ? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/11 "2011-02-23T14:00:39Z")
But back to my main point… We ask our Cops to breadcrumb. Is it really that far from that tactic, to have Power Town meter out what they are? If you could find all of the breadcrumbs, you would probably arrive at who the cop is in 2 or 3 breadcrumbed posts. If a Power town role has to Lie, it is because he / she probably needs to do a few other things first. They probably, or at least should, fully reveal in 2 or 3 identity related posts. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/12 "2011-02-23T14:04:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > town power roles will never claim vanilla, but they will keep quiet. \*\* Yes. Because this worked swimmingly well for me in Hotel. \*\*:rolleyes: Oh wait, **Chronos was Scum in that game**. And there we have it, I was correct with my assumptions here. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/13 "2011-02-23T14:23:39Z")
Well Chronos is not Scum in this thread so I’m not sure what your point is. You shouldn’t make generalizations about Mafia in general based on one experience you’ve had. I kept trying to come up with a good forbidden thread title involving the KGB (you know, watching over things) but I cant believe I overlooked the obvious! ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/14 "2011-02-23T14:28:45Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > RANDOM IDEA : > > \*\* > Do you guys think that a Plants Vs Zombies Mafia could work? \*\* > > Vanilla Town = Sunflowers > Doc = Tall Nut That sounds interesting. It might work better in-theme as a power-heavy game, where the power roles need a certain number of Sunflowers \* Days to use their powers. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/15 "2011-02-23T16:19:37Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > RANDOM IDEA : > > \*\* > Do you guys think that a Plants Vs Zombies Mafia could work? \*\* > > Vanilla Town = Sunflowers > Doc = Tall Nut > > Etc. ? Boring meeting = various ideas. Doc -\> Pumpkin Vig -\> various one-shot plants Tough Guy -\> Wall-nut Redirector -\> Hypno-shroom Tough Scum -\> Buckethead zombie Blocker -\> Magnet-shroom ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/16 "2011-02-23T17:28:51Z")
Hey, I’ve got an idea for **Pleonast**! From now on, he can start Day 1 of every game by claiming Scum! Sure, it’d run the risk of getting him lynched, but you have to take risks to win, and besides, self-preservation is Scummy. And it’d _really_ confuse the Scum! **special ed** makes a good point about **Zeriel** looking to other players for support, but I also notice the same thing from **Suburban Plankton** in post 204: He’s subtly echoing **Drain Bead**. Either one of them might be a good target for toMorrow, once this whole **Pleonast** business is resolved. And on lying, I said it last game, and I’ll say it again: There are very rare circumstances where it makes sense for Town to lie, but they’re so rare that it’s not even worth listing them, but instead considering them on a case-by-case basis. Overall, “lynch all liars” is such a good idea in the vast majority of the time that one shouldn’t even worry about the exceptions, until and unless they come up. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/17 "2011-02-23T20:29:07Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > The first time I saw the vanilla townie on day one claim, i was like WTF. But in reality everyone in the game is implicitly claiming the same thing, he’s not doing anything that everyone else isn’t already doing. No, everyone is implicitly claiming town (alignment) but not vanilla/power role. > [@Meeko](#): > > We ask our Cops to breadcrumb. Is it really that far from that tactic, to have Power Town meter out what they are? I would ask investigators not the breadcrumb because that is exactly want the scum are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/18 "2011-02-24T21:02:38Z")
Quoth **Tom Scud** : > [@](#): > > By the way, I should mention that I’m feeling a bit nervous about peeker, who’s been awfully quiet and non-confrontational in this game. That’s part of what got him killed last game: We noticed that he was a bit quieter/saner than usual, and thought it might indicate that he was a power role. He wasn’t. I’m thinking that this is just a genuine playstyle shift on his part, or at least the calm end of a cycle. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/19 "2011-02-25T13:54:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Tom Scud** :That’s part of what got him killed last game: We noticed that he was a bit quieter/saner than usual, and thought it might indicate that he was a power role. He wasn’t. I’m thinking that this is just a genuine playstyle shift on his part, or at least the calm end of a cycle. It’s funny to me that peeker is saying that this crowd doesn’t like “me too votes” because when I made that rather weak case against him in, was it Evil Dead II? there were like 20 “me too votes”. And he was scum! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259/20 "2011-02-25T20:37:12Z")
I can see where this case against **MentalGuy** is coming from, but it’s not necessarily founded. It’s possible that he might suspect **Astral** , and think that **Pleonast** is probably Town, and yet still suspect **Pleo** more than **Astral**. With all the more information that’s available on Day 1, any given player is more likely to be Town than Scum, and it’s reasonable to suspect everyone. Yeah, the way that **Astral** phrased it isn’t the greatest, but it still looks a bit opportunistic for **Drain Bead**. Meanwhile, I think I’ve figured out what’s at the root of **Pleonast** ’s ideas about Mafia. He thinks that the object of the game is to figure out who the Scum are. But this isn’t actually true: The object is to _lynch_ the Scum. Now, obviously, figuring out who they are is very helpful towards this end, but if you lynch Scum through a lucky guess, hey, that’s good too. This leads naturally to his objection to self-defense votes, because those are motivated not by gaining information, but in trying to lynch Scum. It also leads to things like his Mutiny on the S. S. Insipid game, where by the last Day, all the Townies knew who the last two Scum were, but we were powerless to lynch them: He saw the game as balanced, since Town was able to figure everything out, even though we were unable to win. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-soviet-russia-mafia-plays-you-forbidden-thread-for-glasnost-mafia-no-players/572259.md?page=2)