# In Spanish surnames, why is the 2nd-to-last surname the "real" name?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [September 18, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233 "2010-09-18T23:42:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 5
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@PaddyC88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaddyC88)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233/1 "2010-09-18T23:42:12Z")
From the column:
> [@](#):
>
> according to the manual, “a woman keeps her maiden name after marriage but drops her mother’s family name and replaces it with de plus her husband’s family name” (you’re writing this down, right?). Thus Jose and Maria’s mom is known as Luisa Rodriguez de Santiago.
I don’t know in Spanish-speaking nations over in South America, however I know for a fact (Family) that in Spain (Europe) the woman keeps her full name after marriage and no change is made so her name even after marriage would still be Luisa Rodriguez Castillo.
In Spain the name (with surnames) in birth certificates are the same than that one in death certificates both for men and women regardless of marriages unless changed by Deed Poll.
Was that a mistake or do cultures differ between Spanish-speaking nations in Europe and South America?
Taking the above into consideration anglosaxon culture (Loosing your surname in favour of the man’s) sounds much more “Male chauvinistic” to me than that of Spanish-speaking countries.
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### Author:  [@PaddyC88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaddyC88)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233/2 "2010-09-18T23:57:57Z")
Sorry, Here is the link to [the column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/360/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name)
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### Author:  [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233/3 "2010-09-19T01:13:17Z")
> [@PaddyC88](#):
>
> From the column:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > according to the manual, “a woman keeps her maiden name after marriage but drops her mother’s family name and replaces it with de plus her husband’s family name” (you’re writing this down, right?). Thus Jose and Maria’s mom is known as Luisa Rodriguez de Santiago.
>
> I don’t know in Spanish-speaking nations over in South America, however I know for a fact (Family) that in Spain (Europe) the woman keeps her full name after marriage and no change is made so her name even after marriage would still be Luisa Rodriguez Castillo.
>
> In Spain the name (with surnames) in birth certificates are the same than that one in death certificates both for men and women regardless of marriages unless changed by Deed Poll.
>
> Was that a mistake or do cultures differ between Spanish-speaking nations in Europe and South America?
>
> Taking the above into consideration anglosaxon culture (Loosing your surname in favour of the man’s) sounds much more “Male chauvinistic” to me than that of Spanish-speaking countries.
There is a difference between “everyday usage/social name” and “legal name change”. The first one is what usually happens when a woman drops the second last name and takes “of husbandsfirstlastname”. The second rarely occurs, and this is why the government documents match.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233/4 "2010-09-20T14:32:33Z")
> [@PaddyC88](#):
>
> Taking the above into consideration anglosaxon culture (Loosing your surname in favour of the man’s) sounds much more “Male chauvinistic” to me than that of Spanish-speaking countries.
It also happens in many other cultures besides Anglo-Saxon. Anyway, it is male chauvinistic, but it has a strong cultural grip. Even my most modern and liberal female friends have all decided to change their family names at marriage, at least for legal/personal use. For professional use, they are more likely to keep their pre-marriage names.
We’re probably in a transition phase, and I don’t know how it will come out. But a lot of people have a strong feeling that a “family” ought to have a common “family name” and that is a major player in the situation, often trumping any idea that the tradition might be male chauvinistic.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [September 21, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-spanish-surnames-why-is-the-2nd-to-last-surname-the-real-name/554233/5 "2010-09-21T20:15:34Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#):
>
> There is a difference between “everyday usage/social name” and “legal name change”. The first one is what usually happens when a woman drops the second last name and takes “of husbandsfirstlastname”. The second rarely occurs, and this is why the government documents match.
Right - the “de …” is a _style of address_, not a legal designation. The prevalence of this social/cultural tradition varies regionally and nationally and among classes. Here in Puerto Rico, for instance, it looks like it has been virtually abandoned by the working and middle classes\*. Among those who stick to the practice sometimes a lady will even use the husband’s full double surname as the “de …” form.
(\*…and was never that popular among the peasantry; my grandmother and aunts never used the “de …”. Nowadays our most visible users of “de …” are some First Ladies or would-be First Ladies - Kate Donnelly de Romero, Irasema Rivera de Pesquera, et al - mainly because the publicists want the candidate’s name to get mentioned more often.)