# In ST TNG, is the USS Enterprise the ship where careers go to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403 "2011-06-05T16:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/1 "2011-06-05T16:55:08Z")
Promotion seems awfully slow, Picard has been Captain for 15 years, Riker was at the same position for 15 years as was Data till he died. On the other hand we see officers like Janeway (for whom Voyager was her first command) promoted to Admiral by the time of Nemesis. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/2 "2011-06-05T17:00:31Z")
It should be noted that Riker was offered starship commands and he turned them all down in favor of staying with Picard. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/3 "2011-06-05T17:24:58Z")
Sure, what about Picard? Surely he could have been used as an Admiral by now. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/4 "2011-06-05T17:29:51Z")
I think Picard turned down the Admiralty also. Having too much fun doing what he’s doing , I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/5 "2011-06-05T17:31:58Z")
James T. Kirk also strongly advised him to stay put. He was wise to take that advice. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/6 "2011-06-05T17:44:54Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > It should be noted that Riker was offered starship commands and he turned them all down in favor of staying with Picard. He turned down no fewer than three promotions during the course of the series. I wonder if they eventually just gave up. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/7 "2011-06-05T17:50:05Z")
Most captains get Peter Principled into the admiral position. I don’t think admirals get much respect from the lower ranks, captains are constantly disobeying their orders. The only admiral I remember from the history of Star Trek to be the least bit competent was Admiral Ross from DS9, and he just did everything Sisko advised him to do. I bet the Starfleet officers look down on the admirals because they spend their careers behind a desk on Earth. Admirals are the people who are too dumb to go into space. No captain with a bit of respect would accept promotion, which is why Janeway is an admiral. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/8 "2011-06-05T18:23:03Z")
It seems to me that after the Borg (Wolf 359) Starfleet lost so many officers that Riker would have been made a ship captain whether he liked it or not. But only Tasha Yar’s career died. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/9 "2011-06-05T18:36:56Z")
During the dominion war,hen you have major fleet actions one would have thought that Star Fleet would want it’s best officers in command positions and it would not be a desk job like before. They could have even written it into the movie, have Picard as the squadron commander with the Enterprise as his flagship ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/10 "2011-06-05T18:45:37Z")
Janeway was only made an admiral because of all the Borg technology she brought back to the Federation. And also to keep her from ever commanding another starship. She was proballly given a choice between promation to rear admiral or retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/11 "2011-06-05T19:06:50Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > It should be noted that Riker was offered starship commands and he turned them all down in favor of staying with Picard. That’s because none of those other ships had their own TV show. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/12 "2011-06-05T20:51:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > During the dominion war,hen you have major fleet actions one would have thought that Star Fleet would want it’s best officers in command positions and it would not be a desk job like before. That’s what they did with the latter parts of the Dominion War. (See Admiral Ross above.) > [@](#): > > They could have even written it into the movie, have Picard as the squadron commander with the Enterprise as his flagship Picard did take command over the fleet in the first act of _First Contact_, when the flagship was destroyed by the Borg. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/13 "2011-06-05T20:57:56Z")
Picard wasn’t fat enough to be come an Admiral. Riker was working on it, though. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/14 "2011-06-05T21:04:53Z")
Riker ends up with his own command, eventually. Personally I’ve always thought he passed up commands as it would be better to be first officer on the Galaxy-class flagship than on some beat-up second line vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/15 "2011-06-05T22:43:13Z")
When you’re a Starfleet officer, and a camera crew shows up on your ship, your career is on hold until you’ve been canceled. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/16 "2011-06-05T23:01:01Z")
Didn’t Troi get a promotion in one episode when she made a holodeck decision to order Geordi to his death to save the ship? Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of military history knows better but in the 19th and 20th century wasn’t promotion awfully slow in peacetime army and navies?I am thinking of the British navy in the 19th century…so many ships were decommissioned after the Napolenic wars that many officers had to stay on half pay and stay where they where. Or in John Ford’s “Fort Apache” set around 1876 (they talk about the people killed at Little Bighorn) there is a scene where a wounded soldier gives a detailed report and John Wayne says something about "maybe you’ll get you sergeant’s stripes in 8 years). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/17 "2011-06-05T23:31:50Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > It should be noted that Riker was offered starship commands and he turned them all down in favor of staying with Picard. I believe in “The Best of Both Worlds,” Admiral Hansen notified Picard that Riker was being offered command of the _U.S.S. Melbourne_ and said words to the effect of “This is the third time we’ve pulled out the center seat for Will Riker, and damn it, this time we’re going to make sure he sits down in it!” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/18 "2011-06-06T00:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane;1/3881812] I believe in “The Best of Both Worlds,” Admiral Hansen notified Picard that Riker was being offered command of the _U.S.S. Melbourne_ and said words to the effect of “This is the third time we’ve pulled out the center seat for Will Riker, and damn it, this time we’re going to make sure he sits down in it!” [/QUOTE] Yip. And in that one was the only time he was forced to become Captain. Perhaps because of his actions as Captain of the Enterprise, he was able to have his pick of jobs and chose to stay on as first officer. And, yes, I think it’s a matter of the Enterprise being the best and most interesting ship, and he’d rather be a first officer there than a captain somewhere else. Also, in the real world, is 4 years a long time to be a Commander (or whatever the equivalent rank is)? ---
**Author:** ![Gilles\_de\_Rais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@Gilles\_de\_Rais](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gilles_de_Rais)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/19 "2011-06-06T00:23:50Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Didn’t Troi get a promotion in one episode when she made a holodeck decision to order Geordi to his death to save the ship? No. She was studying and taking the test in a holodeck for a command promotion and part of the test involved making the command decision to send someone to their death. She kept taking the test over and over and failing until Riker hinted to her that she didn’t have what it took to make the command decisions. She re-took the holodeck test which involved sending Geordi to his death to save the others. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/20 "2011-06-06T01:46:31Z")
> [@tingbudong](#): > > Riker ends up with his own command, eventually… Yes, the USS _Titan_. He’s about to leave to take command, with his new wife Deanna Troi as his Ship’s Counselor, at the start of _Star Trek Nemesis_. For more details: [Titan (disambiguation) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Titan). There’ve been several books since. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=2)