# In ST TNG, is the USS Enterprise the ship where careers go to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403 "2011-06-05T16:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/21 "2011-06-06T01:55:21Z")
It should bs remembered that although Starfleet seems to share a lot of features with our real life contemporary military that it’s a fictional organization whose rules, customs, assumptions, etc., cannot be assumed to be known to us. The same with the culture of the fictional future. Perhaps someone in a position like Picard, who is good at his job and enjoys it, it’s not considered a “dead end” formhim to stay put. After all, most of us don’t live in an “up or out” situation. Why should we assume that Picard does just because he seems to be part of anmorgNizarion that is partly influenced by the U.S. Navy? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/22 "2011-06-06T01:58:34Z")
Alas, it’s been a long time since I’ve been a member of a really cool anmorgNizarion. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/23 "2011-06-06T02:00:07Z")
😛 ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/24 "2011-06-06T02:34:11Z")
Or perhaps, rather than their careers dying, they realized that being on the Enterprise affords a greater chance of living to an old age. I mean, if you were going to be assigned to any ship in the fleet, wouldn’t you want the one that was always getting out of trouble that other ships fell prey to? ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/25 "2011-06-06T03:27:21Z")
It got torn up once in awhile. The first one didn’t have a letter, but the next several had the letters A-E behind them. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/26 "2011-06-06T03:28:42Z")
Exemplary first officer Riker would have jumped at the offer of a command. However, mediocre actor Jonathon Frakes would not have been thrilled at leaving a steady paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/27 "2011-06-06T05:06:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Exemplary first officer Riker… Who’s that? Relative of the fellow who was on the Enterprise? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/28 "2011-06-06T06:37:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, the USS _Titan_. He’s about to leave to take command, with his new wife Deanna Troi as his Ship’s Counselor, at the start of _Star Trek Nemesis_. For more details: [Titan (disambiguation) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Titan). There’ve been several books since. Did they even show a replacement for the Ship’s Counselor, like they did for First Officer? Or did they tacitly acknowledge how useless that role was? (Sure, it’s useful on paper, but never in practice.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/29 "2011-06-06T08:38:59Z")
Didn’t Worf and O’Brien advance when they transferred to DS9? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/30 "2011-06-06T08:48:38Z")
And that was Worf’s second promotion. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/31 "2011-06-06T08:53:56Z")
Isn’t the Federation supposed to be some sort of socialist utopia anyway, where everybody only worked in order to facilitate personal growth and self-edification and shit? If so, what’d be the incentive to take a promotion if you’re in a job you love, surrounded by people you care about? Why would Picard want to become an admiral, i.e. graduate from the adventure, excitement and danger of deep-space exploration to a position where the only adventure is looking for a missing stack of papers, the excitement derives from finding it, and the greatest danger is spilling hot coffee over yourself in the process? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/32 "2011-06-06T09:14:24Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Didn’t Worf and O’Brien advance when they transferred to DS9? Yes, Worf was promoted from lieutenant, j.g. to full lieutenant upon Tasha Yar’s death and upon his succeeding her as security chief. He was then promoted to lieutenant commander in the movie “Generations” and transferred to DS9 with that rank. O’Brien’s rank, however, seems to have been wildly inconsistent. He transferred to the Enterprise-D with the rank of chief petty officer. During seasons 2-5 of TNG, he was shown wearing lieutenant’s braid and was addressed as “Lieutenant.” Then in the episode “Family,” Worf’s adoptive father, Sergey, calls him “Chief.” He was shown wearing lieutenant’s insignia again in the DS9 episode “Emissary.” However, in “Hippocratic Oath,” he is shown wearing a chief’s insignia, and his rank is firmly established as chief petty officer. There is no explanation for O’Brien’s inconsistency in rank, nor is there any explanation of whether he was promoted, then demoted again, or why. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/33 "2011-06-06T09:53:55Z")
It’s a peacetime military, which means promotions are exceedingly slow. Add to that the fact that people live much longer in Trek times, which means that an average military carreer could probably last 50-60 years. There’s no reason to think that 10 years between promotions would not be considered perfectly normal. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/34 "2011-06-06T11:06:30Z")
The Battle of Wolf 359 would also do much to _hinder_ Picard’s career for some time, if you are familiar with his role in that engagement. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/35 "2011-06-06T12:11:54Z")
I remain of the opinion that TNG-era Trek is the rough equivalent of the SCA. There are ranks, but they are chosen and given by acclaim. Nobody is strictly necessary to be there most of the time, as humans live in a culture where they can get anything they want and do anything they want. So it’s all volunteer. So if Picard wants to be a captain, there’s no reason he can’t be one all he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Gilles\_de\_Rais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@Gilles\_de\_Rais](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gilles_de_Rais)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/36 "2011-06-06T12:24:17Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yes, Worf was promoted from lieutenant, j.g. to full lieutenant upon Tasha Yar’s death and upon his succeeding her as security chief. He was then promoted to lieutenant commander in the movie “Generations” and transferred to DS9 with that rank. > > O’Brien’s rank, however, seems to have been wildly inconsistent. He transferred to the Enterprise-D with the rank of chief petty officer. During seasons 2-5 of TNG, he was shown wearing lieutenant’s braid and was addressed as “Lieutenant.” Then in the episode “Family,” Worf’s adoptive father, Sergey, calls him “Chief.” He was shown wearing lieutenant’s insignia again in the DS9 episode “Emissary.” However, in “Hippocratic Oath,” he is shown wearing a chief’s insignia, and his rank is firmly established as chief petty officer. There is no explanation for O’Brien’s inconsistency in rank, nor is there any explanation of whether he was promoted, then demoted again, or why. And there is a distinctive episode where O’Brien and Bashir have a conversation about rank. Bashir talks to him about being an officer and O’Brien talks at length why he never wants to be an officer and is happy being a Chief. Wish I could remember which episode that was right now… ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/37 "2011-06-06T12:25:07Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > Most captains get Peter Principled into the admiral position. I don’t think admirals get much respect from the lower ranks, captains are constantly disobeying their orders. The only admiral I remember from the history of Star Trek to be the least bit competent was Admiral Ross from DS9, and he just did everything Sisko advised him to do. > > I bet the Starfleet officers look down on the admirals because they spend their careers behind a desk on Earth. Admirals are the people who are too dumb to go into space. No captain with a bit of respect would accept promotion, which is why Janeway is an admiral. I’m in with the group that thinks after her last assignment, perhaps she WANTED a deskjob. Is anybody else sad to see TNG is aging poorly? PADDs are lookin’ kinda lame next to the iPad. I remember watching it in college, in the dorm, with the guy with the bigass speakers, and how amazingly cool it was to hear the rumble of the ships engines…now I look at it and think “Sure would look better in HiDef”. FWIW, when they built the first Enterprise, I think they got a deal on 14" Dell monitors. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/38 "2011-06-06T12:33:33Z")
The fact that Picard still had four pips on his collar, let alone still had a ship under his command, after _Generations_ could be considered a minor miracle. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/39 "2011-06-06T12:44:08Z")
And after First Contact why the hell wasn’t he Knighted at the very least. I mean the Federation is a successor state to the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/40 "2011-06-06T13:49:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who’s that? Relative of the fellow who was on the Enterprise? It’s how Picard kept referring to him. Of course that’s how he described everybody on his ship. “Your performance as ship’s prop comic has been exemplary, Carrot Top.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=3)