# In ST TNG, is the USS Enterprise the ship where careers go to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403 "2011-06-05T16:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/381 "2013-02-27T20:35:08Z")
The whole “Star Fleet is not a military organization” didn’t get its start until TNG. In the Wrath of Khan both Carol and Marcus refer to the military (Star Fleet) wanting to get its hands on the Genesis Device. But then it’s my understanding that Gene wasn’t really all that involved in WoK. ---
**Author:** ![RealCamz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@RealCamz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealCamz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/382 "2013-02-27T23:01:08Z")
If Starfleet \*\*isn’t \*\*a military organization, then what _is_ the military organization of the United Federation of Planets? I know the discussion has been had earlier in this thread of the term “military”, but it seems quite obvious to me the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion have militaries, so I can’t imagine the UFP not having one. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/383 "2013-02-27T23:08:44Z")
> [@RealCamz](#): > > If Starfleet \*\*isn’t \*\*a military organization, then what _is_ the military organization of the United Federation of Planets?.. Starfleet. They just don’t use the word “military” anymore. Just like we have a Department of Defence instead of a Department of War (yes, I know about the Navy dept being merged with War), or how the Germans no longer use the word “reich”. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/384 "2013-02-28T01:05:37Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Starfleet. They just don’t use the word “military” anymore. Just like we have a Department of Defence instead of a Department of War (yes, I know about the Navy dept being merged with War), or how the Germans no longer use the word “reich”. Or like the Self-Defense forces in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/385 "2013-02-28T06:39:28Z")
I think the talk about military being a dirty word is fan wankery at its finest. Star Fleet is quite clearly a military organization no matter how you look at it. This is just one of those stupid things the TNG writers came up with akin to warp travel “polluting” the galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/386 "2013-02-28T11:27:09Z")
I don’ know how it can be stated with a straight face that Starfleet is the armed forces. War fighting has been part of the onscreen functions from the beginning in TOS. Even in the early years of “no we are not a military” of TNG, it was clear that it was in fact untrue to so claim. Picard was stated to be the beat tactician in Starfleet. And even then, whenever ass need to b saved/kicked it was Starfleet that was sent to do it. By DS9 they gave up from what I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/387 "2013-02-28T15:10:08Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I don’ know how it can be stated with a straight face that Starfleet is the armed forces. Is has to do with budget fights in the Federation legislature. You have the Vulcans and Betazoids whining about spending money (or resources, personnel, etc.) on the military, and StarFleet has to remind them that they (Starfleet) do more than that. It’s caused Starfleet personnel to be a little defensive, and out of sheer reflex they say “We’re NOT military.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/388 "2013-02-28T15:12:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > …Picard was stated to be the beat tactician in Starfleet… And you should see him breakdance! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/389 "2013-02-28T19:59:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Excellent points. “Military” could indeed be a pretty awful word by Kirk’s time. I don’t recall Kirk ever minding it; Picard did. I think, by Picard’s era, the word “military” had evolved to mean “war-mongering,” just as “flagship” meant “most prestigious billet in the fleet.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/390 "2013-02-28T20:04:55Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Is has to do with budget fights in the Federation legislature. > > You have the Vulcans and Betazoids whining about spending money (or resources, personnel, etc.) on the military, and StarFleet has to remind them that they (Starfleet) do more than that. It’s caused Starfleet personnel to be a little defensive, and out of sheer reflex they say “We’re NOT military.” Betazed, of course, should have spent MORE on its defense, not less. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=19)