# In ST TNG, is the USS Enterprise the ship where careers go to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403 "2011-06-05T16:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/41 "2011-06-06T13:54:32Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Is anybody else sad to see TNG is aging poorly? PADDs are lookin’ kinda lame next to the iPad. > > I remember watching it in college, in the dorm, with the guy with the bigass speakers, and how amazingly cool it was to hear the rumble of the ships engines…now I look at it and think “Sure would look better in HiDef”. > > FWIW, when they built the first Enterprise, I think they got a deal on 14" Dell monitors. I rented some TNG DVDs and was disappointed that when I turned it up on the surround system, I could hear the wooden set floors creaking when the actors walked. The ship is supposed to be made of duranium. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/42 "2011-06-06T15:40:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who’s that? Relative of the fellow who was on the Enterprise? Thomas? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/43 "2011-06-06T15:41:09Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s how Picard kept referring to him. Of course that’s how he described everybody on his ship. > > “Your performance as ship’s prop comic has been exemplary, Carrot Top.” Thanks for the laugh! I heard that line in my head in Picard’s voice, and I’m still chuckling… ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/44 "2011-06-06T17:57:21Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Didn’t Troi get a promotion in one episode when she made a holodeck decision to order Geordi to his death to save the ship? > > Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of military history knows better but in the 19th and 20th century wasn’t promotion awfully slow in peacetime army and navies?I am thinking of the British navy in the 19th century…so many ships were decommissioned after the Napolenic wars that many officers had to stay on half pay and stay where they where. Or in John Ford’s “Fort Apache” set around 1876 (they talk about the people killed at Little Bighorn) there is a scene where a wounded soldier gives a detailed report and John Wayne says something about "maybe you’ll get you sergeant’s stripes in 8 years). I read a book on the Great White Fleet. (The World Cruise of the U.S. Battlefleet in 1907-1908.) It was initially placed under the command of the CiC, North Atlantic Fleet, Rear Admiral Robley Evans. [Robley D. Evans - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robley_Dunglison_Evans) He was 60 years old, and a veteran of the freakin’ Civil War. He was replaced when the fleet reached San Francisco (due to ill health) by Rear Admiral Sperry (who was also 60). At that time, it seems as if someone had to die (of old age) in order for others to get promotions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/45 "2011-06-06T17:59:34Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I remain of the opinion that TNG-era Trek is the rough equivalent of the SCA. There are ranks, but they are chosen and given by acclaim. Nobody is strictly necessary to be there most of the time, as humans live in a culture where they can get anything they want and do anything they want. So it’s all volunteer. > > So if Picard wants to be a captain, there’s no reason he can’t be one all he wants. And if Ens. Ro doesn’t want to go to prison, she can simply walk away. Oh, no. She couldn’t. And if Picard doesn’t want to let Jellico take over command, he can simply decline. Oh, no. He couldn’t. And if Geordi didn’t want to go to his doom in Troi’s command-qualification test, he can just ask for a different role. Oh, no. He couldn’t. There’s no reference to conscription, so I’d agree it’s an all-volunteer force, but Starfleet is a quasi-military organization with ranks, a chain of command, and life-or-death authority over those who serve in it. It’s not the SCA. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/46 "2011-06-06T18:30:46Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > O’Brien’s rank, however, seems to have been wildly inconsistent. He transferred to the Enterprise-D with the rank of chief petty officer. During seasons 2-5 of TNG, he was shown wearing lieutenant’s braid and was addressed as “Lieutenant.” Then in the episode “Family,” Worf’s adoptive father, Sergey, calls him “Chief.” He was shown wearing lieutenant’s insignia again in the DS9 episode “Emissary.” However, in “Hippocratic Oath,” he is shown wearing a chief’s insignia, and his rank is firmly established as chief petty officer. There is no explanation for O’Brien’s inconsistency in rank, nor is there any explanation of whether he was promoted, then demoted again, or why. I think the Enterprise was too snooty to have NCOs on board. Thus everyone had to be an officer. But they liked O’Brien enough that they gave him Lt. pips and told him to keep quiet about it. After a few years most of the snooty people had been killed off on away missions and it became okay for O’Brien to be an NCO again. > [@](#): > > Is anybody else sad to see TNG is aging poorly? PADDs are lookin’ kinda lame next to the iPad. > > I remember watching it in college, in the dorm, with the guy with the bigass speakers, and how amazingly cool it was to hear the rumble of the ships engines…now I look at it and think “Sure would look better in HiDef”. My understanding is that TNG will have to be remastered before it can be released on Blu-Ray. Something to do with the series being shot on film but the effects being added on video. In any case, there is a lot of detailed work needed in order for TNG to make the cut for HiDef. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/47 "2011-06-06T18:44:58Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > “Your performance as ship’s prop comic has been exemplary, Carrot Top.” Well, he didn’t say what it was an example _of_… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/48 "2011-06-06T18:50:03Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I remain of the opinion that TNG-era Trek is the rough equivalent of the SCA. There are ranks, but they are chosen and given by acclaim. Nobody is strictly necessary to be there most of the time, as humans live in a culture where they can get anything they want and do anything they want. So it’s all volunteer. Except that it’s possible to be AWOL, and Starfleet officers have the authorityto arrest and incarcerate civilians and aliens as well as persons in their own ranks, and frequently they have to kill people. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/49 "2011-06-06T19:10:31Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I think the Enterprise was too snooty to have NCOs on board. Thus everyone had to be an officer. But they liked O’Brien enough that they gave him Lt. pips and told him to keep quiet about it. After a few years most of the snooty people had been killed off on away missions and it became okay for O’Brien to be an NCO again. > > My understanding is that TNG will have to be remastered before it can be released on Blu-Ray. Something to do with the series being shot on film but the effects being added on video. In any case, there is a lot of detailed work needed in order for TNG to make the cut for HiDef. Not to mention the initial experiementation with CGI spaceships that was…well…bad. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/50 "2011-06-06T19:24:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …Starfleet is a quasi-military organization with ranks, a chain of command, and life-or-death authority over those who serve in it. It’s not the SCA. Depends on the kingdom. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/51 "2011-06-06T21:02:54Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I think the Enterprise was too snooty to have NCOs on board. Thus everyone had to be an officer. But they liked O’Brien enough that they gave him Lt. pips and told him to keep quiet about it. After a few years most of the snooty people had been killed off on away missions and it became okay for O’Brien to be an NCO again. Awesome. That is now added to my personal head canon. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/52 "2011-06-06T21:17:17Z")
> [@](#): > > In ST TNG, is the USS Enterprise the ship where careers go to die? No, it’s where Ensigns go to die. If they wear Red Shirts. Andf join the landing party. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/53 "2011-06-06T21:53:37Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > He turned down no fewer than three promotions during the course of the series. I wonder if they eventually just gave up. Was it three? I only remember 1 (the first?) after the first Borg encounter and Wolf 359. They had the hot blond snooty chick who showed up and challenged his authority, then Picard got snatched and Riker was acting captain, and then at the end he had the “option” to go be a captain elsewhere and declined: “I still have a lot to learn here from you”. And blond chick went bye-bye (can’t remember, did she die or just get transferred?). People who’ve actually been in a navy all take this highly suspect, and think he should have been transferred to be first officer on some garbage scow, or cruise ship, or something. Here’s the fleet just been massacred, desperately needing qualified officers, and he just demonstrated some high capability in the role of captain. And yet he’s not ready? So who are they going to promote to captain, the janitor? That leutenant (j.g.) from supply? Okay, maybe they were also short a few ships. But that can get remedied. > [@DWMarch](#): > > I think the Enterprise was too snooty to have NCOs on board. Thus everyone had to be an officer. But they liked O’Brien enough that they gave him Lt. pips and told him to keep quiet about it. After a few years most of the snooty people had been killed off on away missions and it became okay for O’Brien to be an NCO again. Yeah, there’s no good in-story explanation. “It didn’t happen that way. Shut up.” I think it’s an artifact of TOS where the main characters were officers (exept Rand, and perhaps Nurse Chapel). It created the impression that Star Trek didn’t have enlisted personnel. So Next Gen seemed to think everyone was an officer, and it wasn’t until later someone realized they were calling O’Brien “Transporter Chief”, and “Chief” is an NCO position in our Navy, so obviously he must be an NCO rather than a leutenant. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/54 "2011-06-07T09:18:03Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > No, it’s where Ensigns go to die. > > If they wear Red Shirts. > Andf join the landing party. :rolleyes: The red shirts only get singled out for mass execution in the original series. Geez. (In TNG and DS9, it’s the Gold Shirts who get killed off in vast numbers)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/55 "2011-06-07T09:19:41Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Was it three? I only remember 1 (the first?) after the first Borg encounter and Wolf 359. They had the hot blond snooty chick who showed up and challenged his authority, then Picard got snatched and Riker was acting captain, and then at the end he had the “option” to go be a captain elsewhere and declined: “I still have a lot to learn here from you”. And blond chick went bye-bye (can’t remember, did she die or just get transferred?). Actually, she rattled off a list of three commands Riker had been offered up to that point (right before Wolf 359). Incidentally, all three of those ships were blasted to pieces at Wolf 359, as they discovered later, so ultimately, declining those commands may have been beneficial for his career regardless. EDIT: And it’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode, but Commander “Hot Blonde Snooty Chick” Shelby (not everybody gets cool short nicknames like “Chief”, “Goldeneyes”, and “Wrinkles”) got transferred elsewhere at the end of the episode, due to the massive gutting the Officer Corps had taken at Wolf 359. I don’t recall if she was going to be the First Officer on another ship or if she was getting a center chair or a staff job or what. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/56 "2011-06-07T10:06:00Z")
No wonder Starfleet spends so much time getting its collective ass whipped in TNG and DS9. If you don’t promote the best, chances are that you won’t go very far. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/57 "2011-06-07T10:19:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > No wonder Starfleet spends so much time getting its collective ass whipped in TNG and DS9. If you don’t promote the best, chances are that you won’t go very far. I don’t recall much ass-whipping happening to the Feds in TNG, Wolf 359 aside. They’ve won a few standoffs by getting the Romulans or Cardassians to blink first though. DS9, there were a more occasions where they were getting the ugly end of the stick, but a lot of that was just a numbers game. The Dominion had a redunkulous amount of ships and soldiers to throw at them (they eventually ended up teaming up with the Romulans to balance things out again) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/58 "2011-06-07T14:11:38Z")
In the novels, Shelby did indeed eventually get her own ship: [New Frontier characters | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/New_Frontier_characters#Elizabeth_Shelby) Riker turned down command of the _Drake_, the _Aries_ and the _Melbourne_ before accepting command of the _Titan_: [William T. Riker | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/William_Riker#Command_offers). Of the four, only the _Melbourne_ was destroyed at Wolf 359; the _Drake_ had been earlier destroyed at Minos. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/59 "2011-06-07T14:58:37Z")
And evidently he turned down the Voyager as well. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403/60 "2011-06-07T16:18:32Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And evidently he turned down the Voyager as well. If you believe Q. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-st-tng-is-the-uss-enterprise-the-ship-where-careers-go-to-die/584403.md?page=4)