# In Star-Trek TNG why didn't starfleet use androids for everything. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160 "2011-01-19T02:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/41 "2011-01-19T19:53:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > What would be the point of having the Enterprise travel around without humans? Yep. It’s not an insurmountable writing problem though, Andromeda explored a series in which the ship had a skeleton human crew and was mainly maintained by AI. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Then shouldn’t his name be Datum? Yes, and his less respect brother, Anecdatum. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/42 "2011-01-19T20:30:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Transporters are the one thing I hated most about Star Trek. . . Did Roddenberry himself once admit he regreted introducing it? As you alluded to, it was a plot device that was just too easy to use. If it wasn’t for transporters, than they are using shuttle craft to get everywhere. And while they could have said “I’ll jump in Galileo” and see you in five" it still would have been much more cumbersome. To directly answer your question, I’ve never read that they regretted the transporter. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/43 "2011-01-19T21:28:57Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > That’s another reason they wouldn’t have lots of androids doing the jobs: because humans want to do them. They’re all interesting jobs, the kind that millionaires today often continue doing even though they don’t need the money. None of them are cleaners or sewerage workers or office drones. Those jobs _are_ done by robots. > > And a single human being running a whole ship alone? Well, aside from physical illness or human error making it too risky that the ships wouldn’t last long before exploding, the human would go mad. Ok, point taken. Make that _five_ humans. Someone else mentioned how Andromeda, another Gene Roddenberry opus, made that work. And to the former note, humanoids do a lot of crap in Star Trek that not even Steve Fossett or Richard Branson or other billionaire explorers would do. Wolf 359. The dominion war. Dangerous uncharted asteroid belts. Even if we presume that they’re sick thrill seeking freaks, they bring their families on board with them!! Surely the Federation could have hu-mon ships go perform diplomatic duties on Riza, and leave fighting the Dominion to a robo ship, n’est ce pas? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/44 "2011-01-19T21:31:37Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > (snip) Wasn’t Rom fixing the sewage system on DS9 when he first became an engineer? It seemed like a nasty job that nobody wanted. > > Also, the Maquis weren’t limited to DS9, they were in several TNG episodes and part of the main cast of Voyager. The realignment of the Cardassian border was probably the biggest event to happen in Star Trek. It affected all three series and was felt in two of the movies. But that’s DS9, not TNG. I realise the thread’s expanded a bit, but I was answering the question about TNG. I never really connected the Maquis with DS9 that much, only with Voyager. Not that they were very different to the federation crew after the first couple of episodes anyway. > [@msmith537](#): > > I seem to recall that there are some examples in the series where a single human ran a starship. At least for a period of time. Oh yeah, it could happen sometimes, but it is very risky - it wouldn’t be the way you’d want to do things all the time. > [@](#): > > I also feel like most of the crew exists for servicing the needs of the crew (and the audience), not the ship: > -There’s the captain who basically tells the helmsman where to go. > -The helmsman who tells the ship where to go. > -The XO who doesn’t do much of anything. > -The science officer who tells us what the computer is saying (when the computer doesn’t say it itself). > -The communications officer who tells us what Starfleet is saying. > -The guy who watches the transporter. > -The bartender in the ships lounge. > -The chief engineer and his coolies shoveling dilithium into the antimater converter > -A couple of redshirts to catch phasers > -An assortment of one-off “mission specialists” who happen to be experts in whatever drives the plot that week. (snip) But their task is to go and experience new worlds. Only real people can do that in a meaningful way. Asking why there have to be people on the Enterprise is like asking why there have to be people in the cars commuting to work, or why there have to be people to watch TV and we can’t just have machines to watch TV instead. ---
**Author:** ![noobzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/54ee81/32.png) [@noobzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noobzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/45 "2011-01-19T21:56:06Z")
I meant in the whole Star-Trek universe, wasn’t trying to limit it to TNG. As someone mentioned using holographic AI like the Doc on Voyager would be much more cost efficient than building an army of androids. ---
**Author:** ![noobzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/54ee81/32.png) [@noobzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noobzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/46 "2011-01-19T21:57:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Wasn’t there a TNG episode where they made some sort of hovering powerdrill looking things? And of course they became sentient and had to be sacrificed to save the ship from a plasm leak (or some other horseshit)? > > I seem to recall that there are some examples in the series where a single human ran a starship. At least for a period of time. > > I also feel like most of the crew exists for servicing the needs of the crew (and the audience), not the ship: > -There’s the captain who basically tells the helmsman where to go. > -The helmsman who tells the ship where to go. > -The XO who doesn’t do much of anything. > -The science officer who tells us what the computer is saying (when the computer doesn’t say it itself). > -The communications officer who tells us what Starfleet is saying. > -The guy who watches the transporter. > -The bartender in the ships lounge. > -The chief engineer and his coolies shoveling dilithium into the antimater converter > -A couple of redshirts to catch phasers > -An assortment of one-off “mission specialists” who happen to be experts in whatever drives the plot that week Excellent points. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/47 "2011-01-19T22:15:20Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I never really connected the Maquis with DS9 that much, only with Voyager. Not that they were very different to the federation crew after the first couple of episodes anyway. I connect the Maquis with DS9 more than any other series. It started and ended on DS9, even though it bled over into TNG and Voyager. Look at how it involved Michael Eddington, Cassidy Yates, and several Starfleet officers. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/48 "2011-01-19T22:32:15Z")
I’ll give you two quotes that sum it up - both by the best engineer in the fleet - [QUOTE=Capt. Montgomery Scott (UFP, Retired)] The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Capt. Montgomery Scott (UFP, Retired)] All systems automated and ready. A chimpanzee and two trainees could run her. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/49 "2011-01-19T22:34:36Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Cassidy Yates \Kasidy\ ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/50 "2011-01-19T22:52:40Z")
On the subject of the DS9 economy retcon vs. Picard’s claim of utopia: It could be argued that Picard was 99% correct _at that time_, but a new disenfranchised population was created with the Federation-Cardassian treaty and the creation of the DMZ. While the Federation had a great record of seeing to everyone’s needs before that, the unique political circumstances led to a suboptimal solution for those planets ceded to the Cardassians, and the backlash was severe. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There was one episode where it turned out a Starfleet science lady was one of Dr. Sung’s creations but did not know it. No, there wasn’t. Dr. Soong created B4, Lore, and Data, and that’s it. Data later created Lal, but she didn’t live long. You may be thinking of Amanda Rogers, who discovered she was a member of the Q continuum: [Amanda Rogers | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Amanda_Rogers) . > [@msmith537](#): > > I seem to recall that there are some examples in the series where a single human ran a starship. At least for a period of time. In general, the instances of a single human (or other sentient biped) running a ship by their lonesome are for shuttles, lifepods, scouts, and other small craft. There are a few instances of a skeleton crew of 1-5 doing things with a full starship, but it’s only ever for a very limited period of time, and they can’t use the ship to its full capabilities (cf. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, “Message in a Bottle” - VOY). > [@msmith537](#): > > I also feel like most of the crew exists for servicing the needs of the crew (and the audience), not the ship: Well, yeah. They’re all out there to explore together, so they have to help each other. > [@msmith537](#): > > Although one thing I’ve often wondered is why they don’t make the entire ship “holodeck” to some degree. At least for non-critical stuff It seems like it would be convenient for moving furniture around. Reconfiguring control panels, whatever. This would be a waste of energy and a loss of stability. What happens when an ion storm or enemy weapons fire takes out your starboard power couplings and suddenly the helm console on the bridge is gone? Or the floor disappears? Bad juju mcgumbo, that’s what happens. > [@msmith537](#): > > Heck, with their technolgy, why does the Enterprise need to be any particular shape? Seems like they could just add or remove sections as needed. The fanwank for this is that certain ship shapes (ha) are needed for optimal warp field geometries. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/51 "2011-01-19T22:58:11Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > No, there wasn’t. Dr. Soong created B4, Lore, and Data, and that’s it. Data later created Lal, but she didn’t live long. You may be thinking of Amanda Rogers, who discovered she was a member of the Q continuum: [Amanda Rogers | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Amanda_Rogers) . No, he’s right. In the episode [“Inheritance”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29), it’s revealed that Data’s “mother”, Dr. Soong’s “widow”, is actually a Soong android because the original Juliana Soong died when the Crystalline Entity attacked the colony. Soong programmed her to shut down if she ever discovered she was an android, to preserve her belief that she is the original Juliana. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/52 "2011-01-19T23:04:44Z")
Well butter my britches and serve me with tea - I somehow I missed that when I checked the Memory Alpha page. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/53 "2011-01-20T00:03:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Have there ever been any Star Trek stories (in any media) that touched on the implicit stagnation of their society? I daresay that’s implicit every time a particular episode’s problem is solved with some technobabble insta-solution which is never used or referenced again. Clearly technological breakthroughs are the sociopolitical equivalent of nightclub hook-ups - pleasant for one night but to be rapidly discarded and forgotten afterward. ---
**Author:** ![noobzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/54ee81/32.png) [@noobzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noobzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/54 "2011-01-20T02:11:38Z")
To everyone arguing over the economic system in Star-Trek check out this guy [http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html](http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html) He’s a professor at Cal Tech and he seems to have some good ideas on an assortment of topics. Another one of my favorites of his; Could the Enterprise defeat a Star-Destroyer? [http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/starTrekVsStarWars.html](http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/starTrekVsStarWars.html) ---
**Author:** ![noobzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/54ee81/32.png) [@noobzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noobzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/55 "2011-01-20T03:05:33Z")
> [@noobzilla](#): > > To everyone arguing over the economic system in Star-Trek check out this guy > > [http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html](http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html) > > He’s a professor at Cal Tech and he seems to have some good ideas on an assortment of topics. > > Another one of my favorites of his; > Could the Enterprise defeat a Star-Destroyer? > > [http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/starTrekVsStarWars.html](http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/starTrekVsStarWars.html) I want to edit this post to remove the last part, since i started another thread on the subject. I thought it was too good to just mention in passing. But yes I dont seem to be able to edit this posting for some reason, makes me think the thread it locked for double posting? ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/56 "2011-01-20T03:28:50Z")
**noobzilla** , there is only a five minute window during which it is possible to edit one’s own post. See here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697053#post7697053](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697053#post7697053) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/57 "2011-01-20T21:01:44Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > DS9 seemingly Retconned their universe by saying that it was only Earth and a few other founding nations that were quite so utopian and rich. We did see numerous M-Type planets being colonised, with varying degrees of sophistication and independence from the Federation at large. If someone wanted to set out on their own and see what they could do themselves, they were more than welcome to. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/58 "2011-01-20T23:23:30Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I’ll give you two quotes that sum it up - both by the best engineer in the fleet - You mean the guy so prone to exaggerations that it became a running joke? He even admitted he multiplied his time estimates by four to make it seem like he was a miracle worker. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/59 "2011-01-21T01:24:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You mean the guy so prone to exaggerations that it became a running joke? He even admitted he multiplied his time estimates by four to make it seem like he was a miracle worker. Actually - the line was more like this - Scotty -\> Kirk “It’ll take 12 hours - but you don’t have 12 hours, so I’ll have it done for ya in 3” Kirk -\> Scotty “Mr. Scott, have you always multiplied your time estimates by 4?” Scotty -\> Kirk “How else am I going to keep my reputation as a miracle worker” Kirk -\> Scotty “You’re secret is safe with me”. It was banter between good friends who have seen life, and death, together over many years. The running joke - maybe in pop culture - but never on the show, save for the reference back to it in TNG Relics. “you didna tell how long it would really take didja? How are you supposed to keep your reputation as a miracle worker?” > [@](#): > > Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want. > [@](#): > > Forget it. I wrote it. A good engineer is always a wee bit conservative, at least on paper. Just bypass the secondary cut-off valve and boost the flow. It’ll work. Keeping management off of your back, still getting the job done (in record time, no less) and having time to keep up with the technical journals has nothing to do with competence as an Engineer. Beyond that - the quotes were meant to show two things - 1.) automation isnt neccisarily a good thing 2.) That yes - a ship could be wired to mostly run itself (or atleast with a minimal crew). ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160/60 "2011-01-21T04:48:09Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > We did see numerous M-Type planets being colonised, with varying degrees of sophistication and independence from the Federation at large. If someone wanted to set out on their own and see what they could do themselves, they were more than welcome to. Yes, but with the Maquis especially, they are shown to be living in danger and poverty. Nevertheless, the Federation won’t let their meddling fuck up geopolitics in the Alpha quadrant. It was designed to be provocative; I’ve heard it said that Brannon Braga was trying to draw on the tension in Israel-Palestine. But I never understood that tension; they could have easily moved somewhere else; it’s not like there weren’t enough rocks out there to terraform. But to come back to the OP: the point I’m making is that post TNG season…3 or 4 or so, the Federation comes to be less of this idyllic utopia, and more of a complex and multi-faceted entity. It’s obviously the moral vanguard of the quadrant, but it’s not without its flaws. And because it yes, has to fight bloody wars at some point, it obviously makes more sense to use non-sentient robot ships than galaxy class starcruisers with fragile little people inside. We already have predator drones in use now; surely they must exponentially more sophisticated by the 24th century! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-star-trek-tng-why-didnt-starfleet-use-androids-for-everything/568160.md?page=2)