# In starship troopers, what special rights did veterans have over non-veterans **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416 "2019-04-11T23:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/1 "2019-04-11T23:40:26Z")
From what I recall: Only veterans could vote Only veterans could serve in politics You had to get a gov. license to have kids, and veterans have an easier time doing so. Gov pays for college if you are military What else? I know the government was meant to be fascist so I’m sure there are lots of ways the veteran class were distinct from the non-veteran class. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/2 "2019-04-11T23:44:14Z")
it wasn’t being a vet granted you those rights per say it was they had the ancient world idea of being a “citizen” like being a citizen of rome had more rights than a non citizen It was just the easiest way for a non citizen to be come one was through military service ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/3 "2019-04-11T23:46:28Z")
Are we talking about the movie or the book? It’s been a while since. I’ve seen the movie, and like a million years since I read the book. But I seem to remember in the movie, you didn’t necessarily have to be a military vet, but have had at least been a civil servant for a while. Military being the easiest way to become a citizen. But yeah, as you said, you’d get to vote and all that other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/4 "2019-04-11T23:48:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > From what I recall: > > Only veterans could vote > Only veterans could serve in politics > You had to get a gov. license to have kids, and veterans have an easier time doing so. > Gov pays for college if you are military > > What else? I know the government was meant to be fascist so I’m sure there are lots of ways the veteran class were distinct from the non-veteran class. The first two are correct - and there were other jobs (such as instructor in Moral Philosophy) that were only for veterans. The second two are not correct as I recall (the military pays for Officer’s Candidate School, of course, but not regular college, as I recall, and there’s nothing about a license to have kids, unless I’m very mistaken). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/5 "2019-04-11T23:52:10Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Are we talking about the movie or the book? It’s been a while since. I’ve seen the movie, and like a million years since I read the book. > > But I seem to remember in the movie, you didn’t necessarily have to be a military vet, but have had at least been a civil servant for a while. Military being the easiest way to become a citizen. Even in the book there were hints that non-military service counted (and in interviews, Heinlein suggested that 95% of citizens had achieved that status without being in the military). See this discussion [https://www.nitrosyncretic.com/pdfs/nature\_of\_fedsvc\_1996.pdf](https://www.nitrosyncretic.com/pdfs/nature_of_fedsvc_1996.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/6 "2019-04-12T00:10:49Z")
In the book, it was very clear that military service was definitely the only way to get citizenship. In Heinlein’s later writings about the book, he claimed that there were also non-military ways to gain citizenship, against all of the evidence in the book. There has never been a movie made of _Starship Troopers_, and movies made from other source material are obviously irrelevant to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/7 "2019-04-12T00:12:41Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The first two are correct - and there were other jobs (such as instructor in Moral Philosophy) that were only for veterans. > > The second two are not correct as I recall (the military pays for Officer’s Candidate School, of course, but not regular college, as I recall, and there’s nothing about a license to have kids, unless I’m very mistaken). I’m watching the movie right now and in the shower scene someone says if he completes military service they will get their tuition at harvard paid for by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/8 "2019-04-12T00:17:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m watching the movie right now and in the shower scene someone says if he completes military service they will get their tuition at harvard paid for by the government. I was talking about the book. Never saw the movie… ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/9 "2019-04-12T00:21:39Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I was talking about the book. Never saw the movie… If you’re not stuck on the name “starship troopers” as being a book you loved, it is a pretty decent verhoeven sci-fi-y flick with plenty of humorous social satire that is unfortunately also named the same as said book. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/10 "2019-04-12T00:22:19Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The second two are not correct as I recall (the military pays for Officer’s Candidate School, of course, but not regular college, as I recall, and there’s nothing about a license to have kids, unless I’m very mistaken). In the novel, Rico’s parents aren’t citizens, and initially think he’s making a mistake to sign up, for what they view as a very minor benefit. So being a citizen is definitely not a prerequisite to having kids. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/11 "2019-04-12T00:23:09Z")
No there isn’t. eta: to **snfaulkner**. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/12 "2019-04-12T00:30:46Z")
There WAS a movie, but it was made quite a while ago: > **[Starship Troopers (1997) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/)** > > Starship Troopers: Directed by Paul Verhoeven. With Casper Van Dien, Dina Meyer, Denise Richards, Jake Busey. Humans in a fascist, militaristic future wage war with giant alien bugs. It had Denise Richards! ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/13 "2019-04-12T00:36:22Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > There WAS a movie, but it was made quite a while ago: I’m pretty sure you got wooshed by Chronos’ wording. There was a movie with that title. It was based on an unrelated script. When they acquired the rights to Heinlein’s book they tweaked the existing script and slapped on the Starship Troopers name. Nobody’s done an actual movie adaptation of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/14 "2019-04-12T00:39:32Z")
Enough with the chaotic movie nonsense. In the book it was pretty simple. Being a veteran conferred these benefits: 1. Veterans, following their term of enlistment, got the vote. 2. Veterans, following their term of enlistment, could run for office. 3. Some jobs, police, firefighters and teachers of History of Moral Philosophy were reserved for veterans following their term of enlistment. That’s it. Nothing more. And to the vast majority of the population it seemed hardly worth it. Note, also, that being a veteran could mean a combat role, a non-combat role such as intelligence or planning or even straight research. Rico’s friend Carl was killed doing research on a base on Pluto. And at one point ‘counting fuzz on a caterpillar’ was mentioned as a potential job. Note, lastly, that service was available to all regardless of any physical or other disability. It’s specifically mentioned that if someone volunteered in a wheeler and blind in both eyes the government would find a job for them to allow them to complete their term of enlistment and earn their citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/15 "2019-04-12T00:42:23Z")
Also in the shower scene the short-haired woman says she joined because she wanted to have babies. So there is some implication that citizenship is relevant to having children. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/16 "2019-04-12T00:45:37Z")
The government would find a job for them, but that job would still be something at least as onerous as military service. Rico didn’t bother listing any preferences for jobs below Mobile Infantry, because everything below that would involve the likes of testing spacesuits on Venus. And “counting fuzz on a caterpillar” was never mentioned as a real job, just a guess as to what the government might come up with for that hypothetical blind paraplegic. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/17 "2019-04-12T01:11:54Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Also in the shower scene the short-haired woman says she joined because she wanted to have babies. So there is some implication that citizenship is relevant to having children. My impression was that you needed a government license to be legally allowed to have children, and veterans had an easier time getting the license. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/18 "2019-04-12T02:18:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The government would find a job for them, but that job would still be something at least as onerous as military service. Rico didn’t bother listing any preferences for jobs below Mobile Infantry, because everything below that would involve the likes of testing spacesuits on Venus. And “counting fuzz on a caterpillar” was never mentioned as a real job, just a guess as to what the government might come up with for that hypothetical blind paraplegic. Well, fair enough. But the illustration was there to show that all people had the right to serve and earn the franchise. The government would bend over backward to find something useful for anyone who wanted to serve. So yes, there were benefits to being a veteran. But there was nothing preventing anyone who wanted to from becoming a veteran. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/19 "2019-04-12T02:24:13Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Also in the shower scene the short-haired woman says she joined because she wanted to have babies. So there is some implication that citizenship is relevant to having children. You were listening to the dialogue in that scene? I was distracted by the silicone-based life forms. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416/20 "2019-04-12T13:50:33Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Also in the shower scene the short-haired woman says she joined because she wanted to have babies. So there is some implication that citizenship is relevant to having children. Yes, that was in the movie. The movie is definitely not the book. If you want an exhaustive rundown of why the book is not a reliable guide to what’s in the book, ask any die-hard Heinlein fan. Be sure to have a couple of hours of free time. By the way, there’s no suggestion in the book that non-veterans aren’t _citizens_. But they do not have the right to vote or hold office, or hold certain jobs, as **Jonathan Chance** has pointed out. Heinlein, who had been in politics, was sort of obsessed with the notion of _sovereign franchise_, and how you determine who gets the right to vote. It’s a legitimate topic for discussion, especially seeing how, in the past, it’s been restricted to only property-holding white males, and it’s been a very short time, even relative the history of the US, since it was expanded beyond that. Besides _Starship Troopers_, it comes up in _Tunnel in the Sky_ and _Expanded Universe_. In the last of these, Heinlein throws out what I’m sure he meant to be provocative suggestions, such as requiring prospective voters to solve for the roots of a quadratic equation before being allowed to vote. I’m sure that my wife, Pepper Mill, would want to rip out his heart for that suggestion. You shouldn’t take any of the viewpoints or suggestions of Heinlein’s characters as his own, of course, but based on other things he’s said, along with the fact that he felt he had to come back and defend his only-veterans-can-vote (because they have demonstrated an unmistakable commitment to the survival of the system) requirement (something I can’t recall him doing with any other suggestion in his novels), I suspect that he probably did think this was a good idea. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-starship-troopers-what-special-rights-did-veterans-have-over-non-veterans/832416.md?page=2)