# In Texas you can shoot a prostitute for $150 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2013, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365 "2013-06-07T08:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/181 "2013-06-10T15:29:11Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > [Oh, here are the 2012 US Census statistics that specifically look at different types of property crime.](http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0308.pdf)There, something strange _is_ going on and it might support **Odesio** ’s deterrent hypothesis, but only when you compare the states Texas and its immediate neighbours. > > The US averate rate of burglary is 724. Texas has 967, so, considerably higher then average. But…Texas’ neighbouring states also have very high rates of burglary. Higher then Texas. New Mexico has 1117, Arkansas 1224, Oklahoma 1044. But the northern neighbours, Colorado, have the low number of 532. > > That same factsheet shows that car theft follows the same pattern as burglary. Texas and the states around it have much higher crime rates then the US average, but Texas has the lowest of the three. Wouldn’t the most relevant statistic be robbery, not burglary? In that case, Texas has a higher rate than Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Arkansas. And higher than the national average. Still, DC is 7 times higher than the average, and about as anti-gun as a US jurisdiction can get. The story might be much better told in terms of poverty rates and urban versus rural population.\* \*Yes, I know that crime in general is as high per capita in rural places - but robbery, specifically, face-to-face stealing - probably survives better in places where there are more people. Just like you wouldn’t be a sidewalk musician in Bumfuck, so you probably wouldn’t set up your mugging operation there. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/182 "2013-06-10T18:39:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You’ve seen more than I have when it comes to this, so I think I’ll take your word for it. > Now, beyond the OP-from what you have learned from this thread, the links provided, and any other source, what is your opinion on what happened here? I don’t really have an opinion. I had a legal conclusion based on the set of facts in the OP – I have no idea what the real facts are. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/183 "2013-06-10T19:58:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any others groups you don’t value to the point of considering them to be full-fledged human beings? Looking to join? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/184 "2013-06-10T20:02:51Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Looking to join? Just wondering how big his pile of stones is. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/185 "2013-06-11T17:50:18Z")
Found a interesting bit of information in the [Local Television News](http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_15840.shtml) coverage linked to by **Levolor the Blind** back on page 2. Cant’ tell if it’s supposed to be a transcript of witness/defendant’s testimony or an interview after the fact, but it could be a very compelling piece of evidence if it’s true and backed up by a medical examiner’s report > [@](#): > > Gilbert said, “The wheel is here, the bullet is right in front of it, which is where all the curves of the metal and so it hit that and went into two pieces and the other one literally the size of your fingernail, went into the back seat.” This, to me, reads as if the young woman was hit by a ricochet, or a fragment of a bullet after a ricochet broke it up. If, as the statement implies, the bullet entry points were all near the tires/wheelwells and only fragments of bullets penetrated the passenger cabin after ricocheting, that could be considered when weighing the truth value of his claim that he was trying to stop their escape with his property, instead of trying to kill. To a certain extent it’s splitting hairs, the law would protect him if he were firing to kill or firing to disable the vehicle. As long as the jury found the actions of Ms. Frago and Mr. Perkins constituted theft, then Mr. Gilbert was not committing a criminal act to use deadly force to stop their escape with his property. But I can see a class of Juror, who would convict him if he were firing to kill but wouldn’t convict him if they believed he was firing to disable the vehicle, being swayed by evidence the injuries to Ms. Frago were a result of ricochets or fragmentation of the bullets. Does a guy who is trying to shoot out tires deserve a murder conviction? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/186 "2013-06-11T18:08:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It certainly wasn’t a robbery. > > But it was theft. What theft? In the eyes of the law, he paid her to hang out with him for the evening. She did. If he thought he was paying for sex (as opposed to merely companionship), _he’s_ the lawbreaker in this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/187 "2013-06-11T18:18:42Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Anyway, do you honestly think this woman wasn’t a prostitute? That the man in the car with her wasn’t a pimp? It doesn’t matter what I think. It matters what the contract in force requires in exchange for the $150. Clearly “sex” is not included therein; contracts to commit a crime are null and void. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/188 "2013-06-11T20:47:05Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Does a guy who is trying to shoot out tires deserve a murder conviction? Probably more than a woman who accepted $150 without granting expected favours deserved to be killed. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365/189 "2013-06-12T00:53:29Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > But I can see a class of Juror, who would convict him if he were firing to kill but wouldn’t convict him if they believed he was firing to disable the vehicle, being swayed by evidence the injuries to Ms. Frago were a result of ricochets or fragmentation of the bullets. Does a guy who is trying to shoot out tires deserve a murder conviction? Ys, I have also thought of the possibility that part of what’s at work is that some of the jurors bought the argument that the law protects any action of Party A trying to “stop Party B from getting away”, and never mind if he was trying a particularly reckless way to “stop” them, and based on that the defense created enough doubt in them as to the intent and what was he expecting to happen. That the defense argument made it plausible to jurors that he sincerely intended to just take out the tires and that if his actions were protected, so were unintended or unexpected consequences. Now, ISTM that a reasonable person would find that having fragments or ricochets injure or kill the occupant of the vehicle is a foreseable consequence of the action of firing “just” to stop/disable (heck, if you are using _deadly_ force’, it’s a foreseeable consequence of the action if someone does die). Maybe you’re not up for Murder I but some form of homicide happened. But that’s just me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-texas-you-can-shoot-a-prostitute-for-150/660365.md?page=9)