# In the 1950s, was male on male sex regarded as something horny guys did when they couldn't get dates? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414 "2022-04-06T19:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/41 "2022-04-07T06:15:19Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > It did not require any labeling beyond homosexuality. Folks lived as they wished and nobody made an issue of it. I have read autobiographical accounts of people living during that time, seen documentaries and also novels of the time that involved homosexuality. It seems to me that for some, who could pass and were able to keep an extremely low profile, some people could “live as they wished.” If you didn’t stand out, and could keep a secret, and no one was out to ruin you, that could work. But you couldn’t live as you wished if that involved being honest and open about who you were. And it’s a very different story for people who were gender nonconforming, so that they couldn’t live under the radar. People got arrested for wearing the wrong clothing, or being “indecent” by, say, kissing in public. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/42 "2022-04-07T06:29:20Z")
although I have met guys online that claimed to be bi because "guys were easier to get and they leave after " ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/43 "2022-04-07T08:32:00Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I remember public service announcements on TV (as far as I can remember) warning boys not to hang around public restrooms, but they did not say why. I may have only seen one of these, or possibly more, or more often than once. Before my time, but wow! I’ve never seen anything like that. Can you remember anything more about it? > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Perhaps one event offering historical perspective is the [Boise Idaho gay sex scandal of 1955](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_homosexuality_scandal) That’s a new one for me. All those gay people in Boise plus the Idaho senator with the wide stance leads me to believe Idaho is secretly a gay enclave and all the libertarian gun nut stuff is just a cover. 😉 > [@steronz](#): > > Was it Starving Artist or Shodan who told stories about participating in circle jerks who struggled to comprehend that, no, that wasn’t happening everywhere? **Shagnasty** , but he had a lot of bullshit stories he told. > [@PastTense](#): > > Even if they could get dates they probably wouldn’t get sex unless there was a serious relationship. I don’t know about numbers, but homes for unwed mothers showed there were quite a few having sex. Not to mention all the young girls and women who “went to live with their grandparents” for a year. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > In books, movies and tall tales, perhaps, but not so much in real life. In my 64 years of existence I have yet to hear a first hand account of such an event which leads me to believe that it is about as common as cow tipping. I’ve never had anyone tell me they were in a circle jerk, but I have personally talked people into cow tipping. They don’t succeed of course, but you can talk drunk people into a lot of stupid stunts. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/44 "2022-04-07T09:23:16Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I somehow knew enough to “know” that boys being attracted to other boys was utterly and completely shameful. I knew this because at age 7 I realized that I was attracted to other boys, and that I had to hide that attraction as deeply as I possibly could, or my life would effectively be over. I had my first fantasy about another boy at the age of 5. Like you, I knew that this was something I should never reveal to anyone. > [@Max\_S](#): > > The actor from Perry Mason and Ironsides also comes to mind, ~~I forget his name~~ Raymond Burr. I read once that he had “for show” girlfriends &etc to avoid the stigma of being homosexual. This was VERY common in Hollywood. Not just girlfriends but wives. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > To add to all that, you could get arrested if you got caught. And the police were not above running sting operations at bars where homosexuals were rumored to congregate. I know about this first-hand. And the victims often lost their jobs, their families, and often their lives. Back in the 50s, my mom had a cousin who was a FTM transexual. I don’t think he ever had surgery. He was totally outcast from the family, and couldn’t ever attend his own mother’s funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/45 "2022-04-07T11:30:47Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Folks lived as they wished and nobody made an issue of it. This is an inaccurately rosy picture. If they were doing anything “wrong,” like homosexual activity, they made bloody sure no-one found out about it. Consequences were dire. Living a life where a very important part of your personality must always remain deeply hidden is not living as one wished. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/46 "2022-04-07T11:43:01Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > People got arrested for wearing the wrong clothing, or being “indecent” by, say, kissing in public. Yes, people acted differently in public. There was government censorship of media - Hayes Commission. MM associations were not portrayed in movies or acted out in public. But, it was a more modest time generally. “The Outlaw” was banned in Boston. Anyone watching it today would not be able to figure out why. Also the ‘God made me this way’ identity had not been invented yet. Same gender sex was just sex. Joe McCarthy, J. Edgar Hoover, Cohn, Shriver and Shine formed a cabal that was as much homosexual as it was political. They flew under the radar because it was something you did not talk about. And, they did not consider themselves to be homosexuals. That was a label you attached to others as a weapon. Like Communist. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/47 "2022-04-07T11:52:28Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Living a life where a very important part of your personality must always remain deeply hidden is not living as one wished. “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” Thoreau. We never live in a world without limits. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/48 "2022-04-07T12:00:16Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > We never live in a world without limits. What’s your point? There were vastly more limits in the 50s than there are today if you were gay. > [@Crane](#): > > Folks lived as they wished and nobody made an issue of it. This is objectively wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/49 "2022-04-07T12:13:11Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Crane](#): > > > > Folks lived as they wished and nobody made an issue of it. > > This is objectively wrong. On some level perhaps. But, MM sex was engaged in by those who wished to do so. Not being able to kiss in public wasn’t the greatest oppression of the 50s. For most people, gender identity is not an obsession. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/50 "2022-04-07T13:14:18Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > For most people, gender identity is not an obsession. Almost by definition, your identity isn’t an obsession. It’s a fundamental part of who you are. > [@Crane](#): > > But, MM sex was engaged in by those who wished to do so. And this remains objectively wrong not matter how many times you say it. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/51 "2022-04-07T13:29:21Z")
> [@Why was this useage of "queer" offensive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-useage-of-queer-offensive/962320/147): > > Continuing the discussion from [Why was this useage of "queer" offensive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-useage-of-queer-offensive/962320/147): > > > [@Why was this useage of "queer" offensive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-useage-of-queer-offensive/962320/147): > > > > It is my recollection that in the 1950s male/male sex was just regarded as something horney guys did when they couldn’t get dates. It wasn’t condoned but It did not imply that they were exclusive or different. > > Older dopers, is this for real? > > ETA: What about you know, McCarthyism? > > ~Max I’m an old has-been who never was, so I wouldn’t know, but in the 2020’s is male/male sex something horny guys do when they can’t get dates? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/52 "2022-04-07T13:46:44Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Crane](#): > > > > But, MM sex was engaged in by those who wished to do so. > > And this remains objectively wrong not matter how many times you say it. Were you there? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/53 "2022-04-07T13:52:53Z")
Clarification: I ask because you are claiming ‘objective’ knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/54 "2022-04-07T14:00:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Were you there? Nope, I was born in the 60s, and it wasn’t true then either. But I know plenty of gay people who lived through the 50s and I can state without hesitation that you are objectively wrong. Have you read anything posted in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/55 "2022-04-07T14:18:23Z")
Have you read the OP? Well then your speculation does not agree with my recollection. I may be in error, but hardly ‘objectively’ wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/56 "2022-04-07T14:20:33Z")
Sigh, lured into a degrading men’s room encounter yet again. Another thread were we offer good-faith scholarship and personal experience to what is only a rhetorical challenge, to the derisive laughter of the long-neckers watching through the peepholes. I like to think I’m giving and accommodating to whatever devices my partner brings to the playtime, but I don’t think I should, when it’s so obviously coming from their place of shame. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/57 "2022-04-07T14:32:00Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Well then your speculation does not agree with my recollection. Or with the recollections of others, and well documented accounts of gay life in the 1950s. You can reject the data, but it still makes you objectively wrong. > [@Crane](#): > > But, MM sex was engaged in by those who wished to do so. We’ve gathered evidence that this wasn’t universal, or even common. Certainly some gay sex happened in the 1950s in the US but it was actively criminalized and prosecuted. Many people who wished to do so were arrested, put in prisons or mental institutions, beaten up, or killed. Your statement remains objectively wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/58 "2022-04-07T14:48:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Your statement remains objectively wrong. Clearly, if you read it then it must be true. But, that does not my match with my personal recollection. Some gay sex was criminalized in the 50s, but not all. I knew an Anglican minister who was high up in the church hierarchy. He did not serve a congregation because he was homosexual. He was very wealthy and lived on the 17 mile drive in Monterey. Hardly life underground. Perhaps your reading is selective. Are you saying that J. Edgar Hoover spent his life in jail? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/59 "2022-04-07T14:49:01Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > > Living a life where a very important part of your personality must always remain deeply hidden is not living as one wished. > > “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.” Thoreau. > > We never live in a world without limits. Irrelevant sophistry. > [@Crane](#): > > Not being able to kiss in public wasn’t the greatest oppression of the 50s. Again, irrelevant sophistry. The problems had nothing to do with not being able to kiss in public. They had to do with being blackmailed, with at a minimum losing your job and at worst being jailed, not for kissing in public but just for being in the same place where other men might be kissing. All of this is well-documented in historical records. In spite of claims that you “were there” if you were not yourself in that life, how can you know what those men (and maybe women) were going through, what they feared, how they lived? The whole point is that it was hidden, by universal consent. And that’s it for me, I’m finished being wound up by you. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414/60 "2022-04-07T14:55:03Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > And that’s it for me, I’m finished being wound up by you. Sorry, I believe you are self winding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-1950s-was-male-on-male-sex-regarded-as-something-horny-guys-did-when-they-couldnt-get-dates/962414.md?page=4)