# In the books was Sherlock Holmes eccentric and did he ask a lot of annoying questions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194 "2015-05-16T20:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/1 "2015-05-16T20:48:11Z")
TV detectives that might be said to be based loosely on Sherlock Holmes, Columbo, Monk, Detective Goren (Law & Order) are all very eccentric and ask suspected criminals lots of personal questions and have other irritating habits. Did Sherlock Holmes of the books have any such traits? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/2 "2015-05-16T20:56:55Z")
Holmes didn’t really HAVE to ask a lot of personal questions. He could tell you your occupation, your recent travels, your nervous habits, your favorite brand of cigar, that you had a fight with your wife that morning and that you had served in Afghanistan just by looking at your shirtcuffs. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/3 "2015-05-16T20:59:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Holmes didn’t really HAVE to ask a lot of personal questions. He could tell you your occupation, your recent travels, your nervous habits, your favorite brand of cigar, that you had a fight with your wife that morning and that you had served in Afghanistan just by looking at your shirtcuffs. Did the books list the clues specifically, did the reader have the same chance to make the deduction that Holmes did? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/4 "2015-05-16T21:17:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Did the books list the clues specifically, did the reader have the same chance to make the deduction that Holmes did? Only after the fact, usually. You can’t really write Holmes as a whodunit, because he’s supposed to be so much more intelligent than the reader. And Conan Doyle kind of cheated a lot of the time and you can’t do that with whodunit-style writing (well, you can…Agatha Christie has one rather infamous novel where she cheats the style outrageously…but it doesn’t usually go over well.) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/5 "2015-05-16T21:22:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Only after the fact, usually. You can’t really write Holmes as a whodunit, because he’s supposed to be so much more intelligent than the reader. And Conan Doyle kind of cheated a lot of the time and you can’t do that with whodunit-style writing (well, you can…Agatha Christie has one rather infamous novel where she cheats the style outrageously…but it doesn’t usually go over well.) ah, ok, thanks for answering my questions ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/6 "2015-05-16T21:23:11Z")
Fair play mysteries weren’t really a thing until after most of the Holmes canon was written. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/7 "2015-05-16T21:42:53Z")
On the other hand, Sherlock was very uninhibited when his curiosity was piqued and I get the impression he would definitely ask people inappropriate personal questions if it was about something that he couldn’t deduce from observation. Definitely an eccentric, as well, which is actually part of the reason he ends up rooming with Doctor John Watson in “A Study in Scarlet.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/8 "2015-05-16T21:44:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Did the books list the clues specifically, did the reader have the same chance to make the deduction that Holmes did? To supplement **jayjay** ’s answer, see the [TVTropes page on the “Fair Play Whodunnit.”](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FairPlayWhodunnit) > [@](#): > > Most Sherlock Holmes mysteries are not really fair, if only because Dr. Watson (the narrator) is not as observant as his colleague, but “The Lion’s Mane” gives the reader enough information to draw a conclusion even before Holmes does (although this may not have been Conan Doyle’s intention). > > ◦ It bears mentioning that Watson is usually writing these up after the fact. He could give the reader the clues—Holmes himself professed a preference for a didactic style of write-up that would be something like this trope—but arguably intentionally averts the trope in order to play up Holmes’s brilliance, as well as for the continuity of the narrative. If Watson’s powers of observation had been greater, it might be true that his normal narrative flow might well play the trope straight. > > ◦ “The Lion’s Mane” was one of the few stories narrated by Holmes himself, which could mean the difference was intentional after all. > > ◦ Silver Blaze is another. All the important clues are shown to the reader, leading to one of the greatest detective fiction quotes ever. > Gregory (Scotland Yard detective): Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention? > Holmes: To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time. > Gregory: The dog did nothing in the night-time. > Holmes: That was the curious incident. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/9 "2015-05-16T21:52:03Z")
I read in the past year a collection of short stories. Far from impressed. They followed a quite similar format so it became easy soon enough to guess the perp in most stories. So sort of “fair play” but only because of the formulaic writing. I would describe Holmes as slightly quirky. Not really “off” in a major way. A bit mischievous in fooling people, especially Watson. Generally not confrontational, at least in the short stories. (Not enough time to develop an arc like that.) As noted, he usually asked few questions but some of them would seem irrelevant to the observers. So perhaps annoying depending on your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/10 "2015-05-16T21:55:23Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Definitely an eccentric, as well, which is actually part of the reason he ends up rooming with Doctor John Watson in “A Study in Scarlet.” Stamford calls Holmes an eccentric (" He is a little queer in his ideas—an enthusiast in some branches of science. As far as I know he is a decent fellow enough."), and when they meet, Holmes won’t shut up about hemoglobin, but he doesn’t prove to be too eccentric in the work. Here, by the way, are Holmes and Watson comparing their vices to see if either of them have any that the other can’t tolerate in a roommate: > [@](#): > > Sherlock Holmes seemed delighted at the idea of sharing his rooms with me. “I have my eye on a suite in Baker Street,” he said, “which would suit us down to the ground. You don’t mind the smell of strong tobacco, I hope?” > “I always smoke ‘ship’s’ myself,” I answered. > “That’s good enough. I generally have chemicals about, and occasionally do experiments. Would that annoy you?” > “By no means.” > “Let me see—what are my other shortcomings. I get in the dumps at times, and don’t open my mouth for days on end. You must not think I am sulky when I do that. Just let me alone, and I’ll soon be right. What have you to confess now? It’s just as well for two fellows to know the worst of one another before they begin to live together.” > I laughed at this cross-examination. “I keep a bull pup,” I said, “and I object to rows because my nerves are shaken, and I get up at all sorts of ungodly hours, and I am extremely lazy. I have another set of vices when I’m well, but those are the principal ones at present.” > “Do you include violin-playing in your category of rows?” he asked, anxiously. > “It depends on the player,” I answered. “A well-played violin is a treat for the gods—a badly-played one——” > “Oh, that’s all right,” he cried, with a merry laugh. “I think we may consider the thing as settled—that is, if the rooms are agreeable to you.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/11 "2015-05-16T21:59:42Z")
If you’re really interested, you can just get the [whole set](https://sherlock-holm.es/) and check for yourself. They are all out of copyright, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/12 "2015-05-16T22:18:59Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I read in the past year a collection of short stories. Far from impressed. I read a bunch of the full length stuff and then, later, read started working through the short stories. Like you, I didn’t make it far for the same reasons. The pattern became very predictable. Holmes got a case, did his thing on his own. Watson showed up and said ‘wow, super smokey in here boss’, and Holmes had some kind of cryptic answer that he would reveal once everyone was assembled. Trying to read one after another is like trying to marathon episodes of House (yes, I know). Once you spot the pattern, it gets kinda old. It’s Lupus (checks time, 23 minutes in, it’s probably not lupus). He’s cheating on his wife and caught chlamydia (54 minute mark, yup, that’s it). The nice thing with House is that you can put the POTW on your mental back burner and focus on the rest of the characters, but in the Sherlock stories there really isn’t much in the way of character arcs or interpersonal drama. @Robert, the Dr House is also loosely based on Sherlock Holmes as well. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/13 "2015-05-16T23:09:57Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > @Robert, the Dr House is also loosely based on Sherlock Holmes as well. Yes. House/Holmes, cocaine addiction/vicodin addiction, Watson/Wilson, 221B…there are also an Adler and a Moriarty involved in House through the seasons. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/14 "2015-05-16T23:18:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you’re really interested, you can just get the [whole set](https://sherlock-holm.es/) and check for yourself. They are all out of copyright, after all. Must agree. The essential appeal of Conan Doyle’s stories is their engaging readability. When the game’s afoot, you’re hooked. Give 'em a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/15 "2015-05-17T01:02:04Z")
One subtle thing is that, over time, Holmes became less eccentric and quirky. Watson was a stabilizing influence on him. (Among other things, Watson got Holmes to stop using cocaine.) As the stories progress, Holmes shows more savoir faire. (Whereas, if you read carefully, Watson does not. The death of at least two wives hit him hard, and he took to gambling, to the degree that Holmes, at times, had to hold his checkbook for him.) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/16 "2015-05-17T01:05:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you’re really interested, you can just get the [whole set](https://sherlock-holm.es/) and check for yourself. They are all out of copyright, after all. Nope. Not in the U.S., at least. Eleven of the thirteen stories published in the Case Book of Sherlock Holmes were published in 1923 or later. That was what allowed the Holmes estate to claim control over those wanting to use Sherlock until a recent court case released all the pre-1923 Holmes characteristics into the public domain. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/17 "2015-05-17T15:13:27Z")
I view the Holmes stories as both fair and not fair. They’re fair in the sense that anybody in Holmes’ position and with his talents could reach the same answer. (See Mycroft Holmes.) At the same time, they’re not fair, because Holmes had clear-cut class distinctions, etc. to rely on that no longer exist. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/18 "2015-05-17T15:58:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Only after the fact, usually. You can’t really write Holmes as a whodunit, because he’s supposed to be so much more intelligent than the reader. And Conan Doyle kind of cheated a lot of the time and you can’t do that with whodunit-style writing (well, you can…Agatha Christie has one rather infamous novel where she cheats the style outrageously…but it doesn’t usually go over well.) I was a young teen when I read that story and I remembered and digested the sentence that gives it away, but just figured it was an editing mistake. I never understood the complaints about it, it’s fair game. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/19 "2015-05-17T17:05:13Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I was a young teen when I read that story and I remembered and digested the sentence that gives it away, but just figured it was an editing mistake. I never understood the complaints about it, it’s fair game. I never thought it was something to get outraged about, either. I actually kind of like the novel (although it’s not one of her top 10 or anything). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194/20 "2015-05-17T17:07:46Z")
I thought they were generally fair – all the evidence is there for the reader. Take, say, “The Red-Headed League.” The facts are presented for us as much as they are for Watson; Holmes thinks outside the box to put together what they mean. And, in general, we are shown all the evidence needed to solve the crime so when Holmes does give a solution, nothing is mentioned that has not been mentioned already. Conan Doyle made Holmes seem a genius because he had him give the answer before he gives his reasoning, but the reasoning is nearly always from the facts are previously presented. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-books-was-sherlock-holmes-eccentric-and-did-he-ask-a-lot-of-annoying-questions/720194.md?page=2)