# In the dustbin of our cultural history **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703 "2020-12-10T00:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/321 "2021-01-04T19:38:11Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > Oh no, now I’m going to have to read Digger all over again. I seem to have entirely forgotten this bit. > > And here I thought the question was, ‘has it been long enough since I last read Digger to read Digger all over again.’ > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Well, yeah. The “oh no” portion of that wasn’t serious; except possibly from the point of view of getting anything else done. Sounds like you should post that here. It’ll take a few minutes at least 😉 : > [@How are you procrastinating today?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-you-procrastinating-today/929290): > > I have lots of work to do, but it’s raining and cold and I don’t wanna. Therefore, I’m here, and also writing thank-you holiday notes, randomly tidying small areas of the house, and defrosting lentils for my lovely wife’s lunch. And you? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/322 "2021-01-05T03:50:34Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Later on, when she was training to be doctor, there were sessions held in the men’s change rooms, which she, as a women, was not able to attend. 50 years later, that still burned. I had a great aunt who went to medical school in the 1930s. I’m not sure if she was the only woman in her class. Standard practice was for students to practice _all sorts of_ examinations with each other or serve as a model as needed for the instructor. For anything female-specific the school would hire a prostitute as needed. Small mercy for her that practice didn’t change when there was a female student. > [@panache45](#): > > Once, when I was a kid in the '50s, my mom told me that in the Soviet Union women can be doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc. She didn’t say it approvingly or disapprovingly, but merely as a statement of fact. I thought it was really weird. Gender equality was, at least in theory, a core element of Communist ideology. It didn’t work that way in practice, but Soviet women with the right political credentials tended to have a much easier time entering professions than Western women. In fact I believe the medical profession in Russia and other ex-Soviet countries has ended up pretty female dominated (IIRC 80% of Russian doctors are women). > [@Melbourne](#): > > I asked some nurses what it was like for a guy to go into nursing in the 1970’s (in Melbourne, Australia), and they were universally negative. That would have been a bad idea they said. I know it would have been possible (I knew a guy who went into nursing in 1977), but they refused to be specific: just that it would have been a very bad idea. Once women entered nursing in the 19th century and it was professionalized (historically hospital nurses were men and closer to orderlies) male nurses got stereotyped as effeminate, possibly prone to sexual perfusion (ie gay), and undesirable or unwelcome in all but a few specific environments (like men’s prisons or mental intuitions). In the US even the military didn’t allow male nurses until after the Korean War. > [@Baker](#): > > My mom’s class had the first black student, and when the girls went to the movies they all sat in the balcony of the theater, because their fellow student had to sit there. And they would get lunches to go, instead of sitting down to eat, because their fellow student wasn’t allowed in. Rural Pennsylvania in the '40s; a Black family moved to town and my grandmother became friends with the only Black girl in her school. I don’t know what the situation was at home, but when her senior class went to Washington, DC she refused to set foot or sit (her exact words were “set ass”) anywhere her friend couldn’t. Even the chaperones were unprepared by the issues they ran into (somehow they got the hotel to look the other way). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/323 "2021-01-05T10:40:23Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > Once, when I was a kid in the '50s, my mom told me that in the Soviet Union women can be doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc. She didn’t say it approvingly or disapprovingly, but merely as a statement of fact. I thought it was really weird. > > Gender equality was, at least in theory, a core element of Communist ideology. It didn’t work that way in practice, but Soviet women with the right political credentials tended to have a much easier time entering professions than Western women. In fact I believe the medical profession in Russia and other ex-Soviet countries has ended up pretty female dominated (IIRC 80% of Russian doctors are women). Losing a significant percentage of adult men in WWII was also a factor - women wound up in a lot of professions they might not have otherwise because of that. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/324 "2021-01-05T12:35:43Z")
Margarine was a lot cheaper, is why people wanted it. In those days you might be sitting six to ten people (kids, older relatives, hired people) down at your table twice or three times a day. Oleo went a lot farther than butter. When I was child my mother bought margarine for the kids and kept the butter for herself and my dad, since we “couldn’t tell the difference”. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/325 "2021-01-05T13:15:05Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > Once, when I was a kid in the '50s, my mom told me that in the Soviet Union women can be doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, etc. She didn’t say it approvingly or disapprovingly, but merely as a statement of fact. I thought it was really weird. > > Gender equality was, at least in theory, a core element of Communist ideology. It didn’t work that way in practice, but Soviet women with the right political credentials tended to have a much easier time entering professions than Western women. In fact I believe the medical profession in Russia and other ex-Soviet countries has ended up pretty female dominated (IIRC 80% of Russian doctors are women). My recollection was that medical doctors in the SU were not high prestige positions within the Soviet milieu to nearly the degree they are in the US milieu. Doctors were more “medical process delivery technicians” than highly learned craftspeople with a rare and lofty skill. Which is not to denigrate their actual level of skill or professionalism. Just speaking to how they were perceived within their society. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/326 "2021-01-05T13:25:27Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My recollection was that medical doctors in the SU were not high prestige positions within the Soviet milieu to nearly the degree they are in the US milieu. > > Doctors were more “medical process delivery technicians” than highly learned craftspeople with a rare and lofty skill. Which is not to denigrate their actual level of skill or professionalism. Just speaking to how they were perceived within their society. I think they were well-respected until women were allowed into the profession. Same is always true in any profession once dominated by men; as soon as women are no longer ‘honorary men’ but attain a certain percentage, the profession goes down in prestige. I will try to look up that study. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/327 "2021-01-05T13:34:24Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I think they were well-respected until women were allowed into the profession. Same is always true in any profession once dominated by men; as soon as women are no longer ‘honorary men’ but attain a certain percentage, the profession goes down in prestige. I will try to look up that study. Well, I did try to find the studies but as it turns out … it is complicated. Women make up the majority of physicians but the career was ‘deprofessionalized’ during the Soviet era and it is one of the lowest paid professions there. Academic positions and other more prestigious medical roles are very male dominated. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/328 "2021-01-06T00:06:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Doctors were more “medical process delivery technicians” than highly learned craftspeople with a rare and lofty skill. Which is not to denigrate their actual level of skill or professionalism. Just speaking to how they were perceived within their society. It’s not just how they were perceived. Their function was sort of as highly skilled craftspeople, not as medical doctors on the 1st world model. Reflecting the technology of medical care in the USSR. And I’ve been told that engineering was a basic degree, on par with a liberal arts degree in America. As in ‘Taxi driver? Engineering degree. Short order cook? Engineering degree.’ ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/329 "2021-01-06T02:27:20Z")
This appears to be regional. My family is from the east coast-New York then DC, and were well aware of the difference between a living room and a parlor. Living room was one step up from a den. It is where people lived. A parlor was the fancy room in the front for special occasions. That is the way my parents in DC lived up until the early 60’s when we moved into a bigger new house-that didn’t have a parlor. Very nice living room though. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/330 "2021-01-06T09:18:34Z")
I remember loving to eat at my grandparents because they kept butter and did not use margarine. I think my folks did use it because it was cheaper, but I sure could tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/331 "2021-01-06T12:41:39Z")
I’m sure it’s not just regional. I’m almost falling over laughing, what with mentions of congregating only in their “kitchen and small tv room” and houses with both a living room and a parlor. Nobody I knew growing up had enough space to have both a (plastic-enclosed) living room _and_ a parlor. Or even a small TV room and a parlor, at least not until their children grew up and moved out. Either one room functioned as both and children were generally not allowed in it or there wasn’t any parlor at all. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/332 "2021-01-06T16:01:35Z")
Anyone remember when margarine was white rather than yellow like butter? It varied from state to state, but in New York in the '50s it was white and came in a plastic pouch. There was a dark red “button” on the surface that you broke. You then kneaded the pouch until it was evenly colored yellow. That was my job on Saturday after returning from the grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/333 "2021-01-06T17:37:41Z")
> [@In the dustbin of our cultural history](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/224): > > It was similar in Wisconsin, again due to the strength of the dairy industry, though the margarine law changed much earlier here (in the late '60s or early '70s). There were, back then, stores just over the state line (particularly in Illinois) which specialized in selling “Oleo” to Wisconsinites. smiley[[image] ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RPgeKco7NVo/UKu5cNWsPWI/AAAAAAAAAY4/S0XvknNR9RI/s1600/Oleo%2Bmargarine%2Bsales%2BUS%2B41_Dooper%2Bstore_Jan%2B1966_private%2Bcollection_sm.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/334 "2021-01-06T21:44:42Z")
When I was little, women wore dress gloves to all formal(ish) occasions. Here in the Midwest, that pretty much meant going to church, but some wore them to town hall meetings and suchlike. In the big city of New York, it meant wearing them when going shopping too. That’s one tradition that rightfully belonged in the dustbin. Note: Not the same as winter gloves, nuh uh. But I remember my mother putting her gloved hands into mittens for the trip to church. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/335 "2021-01-06T21:51:53Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > When I was little, women wore dress gloves to all formal(ish) occasions. When we moved to a small town in MN where my dad had bought out a law practice, mom was invited over to the neighbor’s for luncheon by the lady of the house (who was the wife of the publisher of the local weekly (amazing what businesses a small town used to be able to support)). Said lady wore her gloves - I don’t believe my mother actually even owned a pair of ‘formal’ gloves. This would have been 1963 or so. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/336 "2021-01-06T22:30:34Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > When I was little, women wore dress gloves to all formal(ish) occasions. Here in the Midwest, that pretty much meant going to church, but some wore them to town hall meetings and suchlike. In the big city of New York, it meant wearing them when going shopping too. That’s one tradition that rightfully belonged in the dustbin. My Mom worked in the county courts near Los Angeles in the 1960s-80s. Women wore long white dress gloves to Court into the mid 70s. I can recall her bitching that the newfangled Otis elevators had those **[cool modern square non-moving touch-buttons](https://www.flickriver.com/photos/dieselducy/4868034358/)**. Which buttons would not register a touch with a gloved hand. That’s right: the elevators would only acknowledge or obey men, not women. Shimmying off an elbow length glove to use the elevator was a daily PITA. Or else stand there helplessly until a man came along. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/337 "2021-01-06T23:00:04Z")
When I was a kid, back in the 50s, I sometimes accompanied my mother when she went shopping downtown. She wore a smart suit, heels, a hat with a veil, and kid gloves. We sometimes had lunch in the ritzy art deco restaurant in one of the department stores. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/338 "2021-01-07T00:53:37Z")
Wow. I was born in the early sixties and don’t remember women ever wearing white gloves for pretty much any occasion. My mom, my grandmother, and my aunts certainly never did … ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/339 "2021-01-07T02:01:16Z")
In the summer of 1967, when I had just finished sixth grade, I attended the wedding of that teacher. First time I wore stockings, and I did wear white gloves. I don’t know if I ever did after that but this was my first “dress up” occasion. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703/340 "2021-01-07T02:33:58Z")
By the mid-sixties the whole glove thing was pretty much gone except for formal occasions. Weddings especially if part of the wedding party, formal dances for adults, etc. Outside of those rare occasions, no gloves. In the 50’s though, gloves were a fashion statement (admittedly I was born in 52 so my memory of daily life in the 50s is hazy at best). I do remember my mom wearing gloves when I was very little, no such thing by 67. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-dustbin-of-our-cultural-history/927703.md?page=18)