# In the face of extinction... an alternative **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897 "2009-09-04T19:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/1 "2009-09-04T19:30:48Z")
"Gentlemen, as you [know](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=530494) women worldwide have simultaneously developed a global and practically absolute aversion to childbearing. As all right-thinking men will agree, even when oblivion is facing us we may not abrogate a woman’s natural right to do as she will with her body, and we therefore have until the last generation of baby girls reaches menopause to find a solution which will permit our race to continue, should there be one. "I said _practically_ absolute, as I am pleased to report that after lengthy negotiations we have been able to arrive at a possibly workable stopgap pending the development of a successful artificial uterus, which top biologists confidently expect within twenty years. (This is a laudable achievement and only the truly mean-minded would remark that the same has been said about controlled fusion since the 1950s). "The stopgap is twofold: "Firstly, one woman in ten thousand is willing to carry a pregnancy as far as the twenty-fifth week, after which labour is to be induced and every effort made to ensure the survival of the premature baby. Conception and delivery will be carried out by trusted female technicians, and we are advised that any attempt to renege on the deal will meet with extreme retribution. The price will be one thousand million dollars US for each such baby, payable on delivery, no refunds. "Secondly, for each such woman I am delighted to add that as many as _one hundred_ are prepared to volunteer their services as egg donors. To compensate them for this highly intrusive process - though less intrusive than bearing an unwanted foetus - the fee payable will be one million dollars US per ovum, _caveat emptor_. Again, this work will be carried out by trusted female technicians. "It will be necessary to find surrogate hosts for such ova following _in vitro_ fertilisation, of course. These will need to be male volunteers. I am advised that it has been established that the chances of survival for both host and infant are as high as 90% provided that the volunteer is young enough and in good health. After the host’s twentieth birthday, I am afraid the chances do drop off rather sharply. No, I am sorry, speculation concerning animal hosts must be viewed as fanciful at the present time. Gentlemen, I urge you to remember our forefathers at Guadalcanal, at Omaha Beach, and many other places and times besides - this is not such a high price to pay, surely? "Finally, I must emphasise that the deal as offered must be accepted _in toto_ or not at all, and it is implicit that the unit of value is the dollar at its present buying power, and that we shall guarantee that it retains such. “Are there any observations, or shall we move to a vote?” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/2 "2009-09-04T21:03:25Z")
“Good senator, I have a few questions. Firstly, how were you planning to incentivize the men to become donors? You mention volunteers, but my census data indicates that there are actually only three men who stated they were willing to volunteer for this procedure, and they were all extremely drunk at the time of the census. Were you intending to offer them large compensation similar to that you are offering the ladies, or was ‘volunteers’ merely a gentle way of saying ‘victims’?” “And on the subject of compensation, how did you intend to pay for this? It seems unlikely that we will be able to avoid inflation if we simply pull this money from the national debt. Not to mention there are already far too many jokes as it is about us stealing from grandchildren that we won’t ever have.” ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/3 "2009-09-04T21:03:54Z")
So sex is now solely for recreation with no chance of procreation? And we don’t have to expend any money on childcare, toys for kids, clothes for kids, healthcare for kids, education for kids, etc.? Fuck that reproduction shit. Get those scientists on figuring how to splice the immortality gene from turtles into people and let’s make our generation immortal. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/4 "2009-09-04T21:18:54Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > immortality gene from turtles Wut? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/5 "2009-09-04T21:43:27Z")
Fuck the human race. If we fail to survive, it’s just more proof that Darwin was right. No tax dollars for this scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/6 "2009-09-04T21:46:13Z")
[Dis](http://barryyeoman.com/articles/turtles.html) > [@](#): > > James Christiansen, professor of biology at Drake University in Des Moines, is studying how telomeres, the simple, non-genetic DNA sequences that sheathe the ends of chromosomes, function in reptiles. Each time a healthy human cell divides, it loses a little bit of the telomere, until the strands are too short to protect the chromosomes. At that point the DNA in a cell begins to break down, which triggers senescence and death. Human cancer cells go off the program, producing an enzyme called telomerase that stops the shortening and renders the malignant cells immortal. > > Turtles seem to follow a different pattern. “Even though many species live in some of our most polluted environments,” Christiansen says, “they avoid cancer.” Early results of his study suggest that some reptiles may receive a short burst of telomerase early in life, which makes healthy cells rather than cancerous ones immortal. If this proves to be the case, he says, the human implications may be dazzling. “If we could do that with humans shortly after birth, before the mutations have a chance to creep in,” he says, “we could potentially add a hundred years to the human life span.” Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/7 "2009-09-04T21:48:07Z")
Ah, thanks for clearing up my ignorance. Still not true immortality, or even eternal youth, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/8 "2009-09-04T21:52:10Z")
Not from the shot of telomerase alone, but some turtles are pretty much immortal. From the same article. > [@](#): > > Blanding’s and perhaps also Midland Painted turtles don’t senesce—deteriorate physically—as they grow old. They simply don’t age. And Congdon says the females actually produce more eggs as they grow older: “They’re crankin’ compared to the young ones.” When they do die, the cause is often an attack—hit by a car or mauled by a raccoon—or one of a number of infectious diseases that kill these turtles at all ages in seemingly equal proportions. While certain ailments, such as cancer and heart disease, strike older humans more often than they do younger ones, Congdon’s animals don’t seem to become more vulnerable to disease as they grow older. So there’s about a hundred years worth of potential from the telomerase dose, but whatever else these turtles have going for them, we should see if we can get going for us. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/9 "2009-09-04T21:57:26Z")
**Mtgman** , you have made this thread a _lot_ more awesome than I expected it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/10 "2009-09-04T22:05:17Z")
Fair enough. Mind you, if the price of a second century of life is dry, wrinkled skin and the inability to move faster than a crawl, I’ll not be hammering at the doors for it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/11 "2009-09-04T22:06:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Fair enough. Mind you, if the price of a second century of life is dry, wrinkled skin and the inability to move faster than a crawl, I’ll not be hammering at the doors for it. 😃 On the upside, housing will cease to be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/12 "2009-09-04T22:15:14Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Fair enough. Mind you, if the price of a second century of life is dry, wrinkled skin and the inability to move faster than a crawl, I’ll not be hammering at the doors for it. 😃 [Wizened old hag]You’re gonna live forever, why you in such a hurry?[/WOH] Sorry for derailing your thread, I’ll stop now. The idea of how big a price to put on the continuation of the species, the only one we know of which is sentient, is actually an interesting one and I look forward to coming back to this thread next week. Have a good weekend. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/13 "2009-09-04T22:25:00Z")
It was an enjoyable hijack, and who’d be such a killjoy as to object? Back atcha. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/14 "2009-09-04T22:28:30Z")
If the hijack is over, what about my first post? These are serious gaps in the proposal - not the least of which is how are we supposed to guarantee that inflation won’t occur? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/15 "2009-09-06T11:08:40Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If the hijack is over, what about my first post? These are serious gaps in the proposal - not the least of which is how are we supposed to guarantee that inflation won’t occur? "We are of course unable to guarantee that there will be no inflation, but we are required to factor index-linking into the payments. I may reveal in addition that during negotiations it was tentatively agreed that payment terms might be acceptable - and you will surely agree that a million dollars becomes a less intimidating figure when it may be paid over twenty-five, perhaps thirty years. It is clearly understood that the terms may appear onerous at first sight, but I should remind you that this is not a buyer’s market. "Naturally we may find ourselves unable to sustain a birthrate sufficient to maintain our present population levels, but the solution is presented only as a stopgap until, perhaps, technology has advanced sufficiently to admit of a better. We are obliged to maintain some population of breeding age against that day, as will be obvious - and also to ensure that the labour force does not grey out. “You spoke also of volunteers. I believe that circumstances alter cases. No sane man would volunteer to stand in a muddy trench in northern Europe during the depths of winter in order to be shelled, machine-gunned or gassed, and yet history records that volunteers have been found in answer to urgent need - which I do not believe was a factor in your otherwise admirable census findings.” ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/16 "2009-09-06T11:28:09Z")
Why not just let the human race become extinct? Why are the men so anxious to keep it going? Who cares what happens after we’re gone if there are no children? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/17 "2009-09-06T11:32:44Z")
See the other thread and digest the arguments. :rolleyes: One consequence of no children is billions of old people dying in food riots, pandemics, mass starvation, flood, fire… need I continue? Feel free to, you know, join in with the discussion and not just fight the hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/18 "2009-09-06T11:49:23Z")
There was some British officer in the early 1900s who had a pet turtle that was 400 years old or something…I can’t remember the name of the guy or the turtle but surely someone here does. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/19 "2009-09-06T12:52:05Z")
$1 000000000 per baby is way too much. Ditto $1000000 per egg. I’d suggest we develop a way of [inducing egg formation](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/23921.php) from [stem cells](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127090732.htm) rather than ovary tissue, similar to the recent [stem cells-\>sperm](http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156730.php) announcement. Then we could tell the women to get bent. I’d suggest that all the vocal anti-abortion fundies be used as hosts - after all, life is sacred, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897/20 "2009-09-06T14:08:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’d suggest that all the vocal anti-abortion fundies be used as hosts Indeed - and they would likely comply. The OP’s premise that every woman everywhere will suddenly and simultaneously exhibit a violent aversion to childbearing is about as likely as that they would all suddenly sprout hands growing from their ears. Ditto with the premise that men everywhere would meekly respect this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-face-of-extinction-an-alternative/508897.md?page=2)