# In the history of the SDMB has anyone ever been wrong about more things than adaher? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639 "2013-08-31T04:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/201 "2013-09-05T15:43:27Z")
Vaccines are thankfully not a liberal or conservative issue. Most pols are in favor of them. You get crazies on the right like Michelle Bachman and crazies on the left like RFK Jr. But that’s about it. As for adaher all I have add is that his name reminds me of the lovely Hebrew song [Adir Hu.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxE0pWd0nv0) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/202 "2013-09-05T15:51:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not going to make the excuse that it’s not conservative. However, it is a theory conservatives latched onto which was long proven to not work and should have been abandoned in favor of the conservative fiscal policies that actually worked. There are no big conservative policies that worked, nor have they been tried by actual conservatives in the last 30 years. Either the policy has failed or they were liberal ones. The only one that is even remotely conservative is Obamacare, and that was simply to have something in response to Hillary’s health care reform in the 90’s ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/203 "2013-09-05T16:32:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THere’s another: poverty causes crime. The first has no empirical evidence to support it, only theory, and the second is just demonstrably and provably wrong. The most hilarious part about it is that _ **now that we know lead was a major cause of crime. \ But that’s exactly what lead exposure did to people! It made them stupid and less likely to control their baser impulses! but now it’s okay to say it because the lead did it.** _. Wait…whut?? Lead…like the element? Heavy, greyish? Does anyone know what he’s talking about? Is this related to fluoridation in the water polluting our precious bodily fluids? ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/204 "2013-09-05T16:56:07Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Wait…whut?? > > Lead…like the element? Heavy, greyish? > > Does anyone know what he’s talking about? > > Is this related to fluoridation in the water polluting our precious bodily fluids? Eh, I hate to say it, but there is some truth to this point that **adaher** makes. He’s way oversimplifying, but it’s quite believable that lead is a factor. And now I try to destroy the space-time continuum by using Mother Jones to defend a point **adaher** made… [link to artice](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline?page=1). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/205 "2013-09-05T16:59:26Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Wait…whut?? > > Lead…like the element? Heavy, greyish? > > Does anyone know what he’s talking about? > > Is this related to fluoridation in the water polluting our precious bodily fluids? The theory is that with the elimination of leaded gas, paint and such, lead levels in people are less than before and lead was the cause of violent behavior. Thus explaining the decrease in the overall crime rate over the past few decades. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/206 "2013-09-05T17:03:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I serve a purpose here, at least until better Tea Party advocates come along. Frankly, I don’t see the point in waiting for someone else to come along. All you gotta do is add some thinly-veiled racism on top of the aspects you’ve already mastered (perpetual wrongness, inability to distinguish opinions from facts, delusions of adequacy) and you can be a perfect representative of the Tea Party. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/207 "2013-09-05T17:05:25Z")
The funny part is that to many Republicans and self-professed Libertarians, the regulations banning Lead are an injustice perpetrated on society and are themselves the greater evil. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/208 "2013-09-05T17:40:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Wait…whut?? > > Lead…like the element? Heavy, greyish? > > Does anyone know what he’s talking about? > > Is this related to fluoridation in the water polluting our precious bodily fluids? Not only do I know about what he’s talking about, I’ve known for close to a decade. [Cite.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4590322&postcount=8). Sadly, the links are no longer available, but lead exposure is pretty much proven to be a factor in homicide and other crimes of violence. He’s still an idiot, but happens to be a correct idiot in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/209 "2013-09-05T18:07:00Z")
To conservatives–the less you understand about a person, the more likely you are to make incorrect assumptions about them. for instance, assuming that someone is evil, instead of just ignorant, is much easier if you know very little about them. This has implications for criminal justice. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/210 "2013-09-05T18:10:11Z")
If [georgewk10 hadn’t been cut short](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php)… ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/211 "2013-09-05T18:17:13Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Not only do I know about what he’s talking about, I’ve known for close to a decade. [Cite.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4590322&postcount=8). Sadly, the links are no longer available, but lead exposure is pretty much proven to be a factor in homicide and other crimes of violence. > > He’s still an idiot, but happens to be a correct idiot in this regard. Actually, no – it’s actually a demonstration of how Adaher can, at the same time, seem plausible and yet be hilariously wrong at the same time. Look at his original argument – he’s claiming that poverty does not cause crime. [Really, that’s his claim.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16632289&postcount=108) Then, he points to the lead study as \* proof of this assertion \*. Now even the most ardent supporters of the “lead increases violence in populations” school are not going to claim that this is the only motivator for urban crime. But Adaher takes one factor and, ignoring nuance, makes a sweeping and absolute statement about a completely different issue. So it’s an interesting and quite annoying rhetorical technique. Find a study that sort of tangentially supports your theory, seize upon it like a fiscal conservative discovering the Laffer curve, and make broad-reaching and absolutist statements that aren’t actually supported by the pro-offered evidence. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/212 "2013-09-05T18:19:40Z")
Still, he’s obviously a bright kid, and maybe once he goes off to college he’ll find the capacity to set down the Ayn Rand books and learn the world is a little more complicated than he thought. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/213 "2013-09-05T18:53:21Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > …seize upon it like a fiscal conservative discovering the Laffer curve,… I LOL’d. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/214 "2013-09-05T19:13:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > if you understood what I posted, you’d realize that trying to create justice often just creates new injustices. Why, just recently we had a thread pointing out the injustice of blacks getting to call each other the “N-word” when whites aren’t accorded the same freedom! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/215 "2013-09-05T19:41:44Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I LOL’d. “Loogied On Laffer”? Was it not ever so helpful of Arthur to do his magnum opus on a cocktail napkin, providing us with something handy to wipe up the fluids of derision he evoked? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/216 "2013-09-07T04:04:33Z")
In the Minimum Wage thread, he has tried to claim that minimum wage is sufficient for a single person to live on :rolleyes:, and that the USA\* has twice as many immigrants as Norway or Sweden\*\*. I’m sure he’ll be along to claim that numerically we have twice as many, and we all can show him that is wrong too. - 13% ‘foreign born’ \*\* 12 and 14% ‘foreign born’, respectively. Goddamn this guy is an ignorant fucker. It doesn’t take a lot to verify shit before you make claims like that, but obviously that’s too much work for him. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/217 "2013-09-07T04:22:22Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Actually, no – it’s actually a demonstration of how Adaher can, at the same time, seem plausible and yet be hilariously wrong at the same time. Look at his original argument – he’s claiming that poverty does not cause crime. [Really, that’s his claim.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16632289&postcount=108) > > Then, he points to the lead study as \* proof of this assertion \*. Now even the most ardent supporters of the “lead increases violence in populations” school are not going to claim that this is the only motivator for urban crime. But Adaher takes one factor and, ignoring nuance, makes a sweeping and absolute statement about a completely different issue. > > So it’s an interesting and quite annoying rhetorical technique. Find a study that sort of tangentially supports your theory, seize upon it like a fiscal conservative discovering the Laffer curve, and make broad-reaching and absolutist statements that aren’t actually supported by the pro-offered evidence. There is zero correlation between poverty rates and crime. While it’s true that most criminals are poor, you don’t get more criminals when you get more poor people, which would imply that it’s not the poverty that’s causing the criminal behavior. And thugs don’t stop being thugs when they get money. In fact, they often become more thuggish and even more likely to end up in prison. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/218 "2013-09-07T04:26:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > In the Minimum Wage thread, he has tried to claim that minimum wage is sufficient for a single person to live on :rolleyes:, and that the USA\* has twice as many immigrants as Norway or Sweden\*\*. I’m sure he’ll be along to claim that numerically we have twice as many, and we all can show him that is wrong too. > > - 13% ‘foreign born’ > \*\* 12 and 14% ‘foreign born’, respectively. > > Goddamn this guy is an ignorant fucker. It doesn’t take a lot to verify shit before you make claims like that, but obviously that’s too much work for him. I was looking at migration rates. and “foreign born” in Scandinavia is very likely to be more Scandinavians. Scandinavian nations are essentially gated communities. Being wrong is not a crime and it doesn’t reflect badly on a person. what does reflect badly on a person is rushing to proclaim him wrong, and further an idiot or ignorant, when you’ve actually proved nothing of the sort. A tendency which I see a lot around here. News flash: being associated with a true ignorance-fighter like Cecil by posting on his board does not make you an ignorance-fighter. Many of you set the cause back by your shitty behavior and moral and intellectual arrogance which Chimera so aptly demonstrated. Btw, couldn’t help but notice that Chimera happened to completely miss the fact that I cited my claim. Now that’s some remarkable stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/219 "2013-09-07T04:32:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There is zero correlation between poverty rates and crime. While it’s true that most criminals are poor, you don’t get more criminals when you get more poor people, which would imply that it’s not the poverty that’s causing the criminal behavior. And thugs don’t stop being thugs when they get money. In fact, they often become more thuggish and even more likely to end up in prison. [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/10/19/property-crime-rates-by-income-level](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/10/19/property-crime-rates-by-income-level) [http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/slides/ViolentCrime.pdf](http://www.stanford.edu/group/scspi/slides/ViolentCrime.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/220 "2013-09-07T04:49:38Z")
Your cites don’t say anything to contradict my argument. Poor people are more likely to be criminals, but if poverty was the CAUSE of crime, then you’d get more crime as you got more poverty, and less crime as you got less poverty. The correlation between crime rates and the poverty rate is non-existent. Thus, poverty is not a cause of crime. More likely, criminal behavior is a cause of poverty. there was just an intersting op-ed about how David Dinkins, the worst mayor in NYC’s history, resisted police recommendations for getting crime under control because he thought there was no police solution to crime, that the key to solving crime was to solve poverty and other social maladies. He wasn’t alone. Most liberals, armed with the latest in sociology studies, were sure the science was settled. It wasn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639.md?page=12)