# In the history of the SDMB has anyone ever been wrong about more things than adaher? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639 "2013-08-31T04:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/341 "2013-09-25T17:13:03Z")
[Ezra Klein](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/24/what-republicans-dont-understand-about-the-politics-of-obamacare/)… > [@](#): > > Democrats know they own Obamacare. They can’t get away from that. But they figure their chances in 2014 are substantially improved if Republicans own a shutdown – or, worse, a default. > > Democrats used to hope that Obamacare would help them in the 2014 election by being popular, but now they think it might help them by driving the GOP so crazy that the American people simply don’t trust them to govern. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/342 "2013-09-25T17:19:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d recommend that you at least read Ezra Klein’s latest analysis of the costs of the ACA. Assuming you actually want to know the facts from a trusted source. Not surprisingly, the Ezra Klein post does not say what you think it says. Your sources doom and gloom predictions about the ACA are just as fantastical as any lollipops and unicorns prediction (which I’m not aware of existing)- most supporters recognize that the ACA is a flawed bill which is nevertheless a big improvement on the existing health care system. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/343 "2013-09-25T17:29:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not surprisingly, the Ezra Klein post does not say what you think it says. Are you suggesting that **adaher** was wrong? How unprecedented! Of course, if he were right about how terrible ACA is, the Republicans would let it happen and let all the blame fall squarely on Obama and the Democrats. Yet for some reason they spew endless lies about it and desperately try to get as many people to opt out as possible before implementation. I wonder why that is? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/344 "2013-09-25T17:34:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I dunno - much as he’s making fast progress, **Gack** has a lot of ground to make up. His recent use of Hitler in defense of the view that the Holocaust didn’t happen is a damn good effort though. A mere 13 minutes after this post, **adaher** shows up in “Elections” suddenly unable to grasp what “Cite?” means\*. Just coincidence? Or is someone getting a bit possessive of their status as the SDMB poster boy for wrongness? \*([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16697145#post16697145](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16697145#post16697145)) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/345 "2013-09-26T05:28:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not surprisingly, the Ezra Klein post does not say what you think it says. Your sources doom and gloom predictions about the ACA are just as fantastical as any lollipops and unicorns prediction (which I’m not aware of existing)- most supporters recognize that the ACA is a flawed bill which is nevertheless a big improvement on the existing health care system. I think you need to work on reading comprehension skills, not me. When have I ever preached doom and gloom about ACA? I’m just trying to get supporters to acknowledge the very real tradeoffs, something which Klein does. When finally presented with the facts from a non-right-wing source, your instincts are to continue spinning: See, it’s not that bad! Never said it was “that bad”. It’s just not “that awesome” either. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/346 "2013-09-26T05:29:22Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > A mere 13 minutes after this post, **adaher** shows up in “Elections” suddenly unable to grasp what “Cite?” means\*. > > Just coincidence? Or is someone getting a bit possessive of their status as the SDMB poster boy for wrongness? > > \*([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16697145#post16697145](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16697145#post16697145)) I’m sorry that my disbelief that you could be ignorant that the President wants revenue increases made me delay providing a cite. Would you also like a cite for the Earth being round? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/347 "2013-09-26T09:09:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think you need to work on reading comprehension skills, not me. When have I ever preached doom and gloom about ACA? I’m just trying to get supporters to acknowledge the very real tradeoffs, something which Klein does. > > When finally presented with the facts from a non-right-wing source, your instincts are to continue spinning: See, it’s not that bad! > > Never said it was “that bad”. It’s just not “that awesome” either. And no one is saying it’s awesome here. Pretty much every ACA supporter here has acknowledged tradeoffs and problems with the bill- we just think it’s significantly better than no bill. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/348 "2013-09-26T09:17:13Z")
All I’ve seen is denial. ALthough I am seeing the talking points subtly shift as the downsides become reality rather than warnings of what’s coming. “We never said it was perfect!” oh yes you did! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/349 "2013-09-26T09:34:06Z")
We think single payer is perfect. Obamacare is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/350 "2013-09-26T09:40:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I’ve seen is denial. ALthough I am seeing the talking points subtly shift as the downsides become reality rather than warnings of what’s coming. “We never said it was perfect!” oh yes you did! What a load of crap- I challenge you to find a single post on the SDMB where someone said the ACA was “perfect”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/351 "2013-09-26T10:55:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What a load of crap- I challenge you to find a single post on the SDMB where someone said the ACA was “perfect”. And while he’s doing that, we’ll see if we can find any instances of him “preaching doom and gloom about ACA”. This should be fun… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/352 "2013-09-26T12:38:24Z")
He _might_ be able to find someone using the words “best we can get.” ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/353 "2013-09-26T12:54:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sorry that my disbelief that you could be ignorant that the President wants revenue increases made me delay providing a cite. Would you also like a cite for the Earth being round? So, are you dumb enough to have already forgotten the responses in that thread or do you figure no one’s going to bother to check the link and you can therefore get away with mischaracterizing the other thread? Either way, thanks for demonstrating that it was no coincidence and that you are trying to fend off **Gack** ’s challenge with a renewed burst of stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/354 "2013-09-26T13:10:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I’ve seen is denial. ALthough I am seeing the talking points subtly shift as the downsides become reality rather than warnings of what’s coming. “We never said it was perfect!” oh yes you did! Wow, in a thread about how wrong you are, you come in and post something else that’s wrong. Take up **andy** ’s challenge, suckwad. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/355 "2013-09-26T17:15:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What a load of crap- I challenge you to find a single post on the SDMB where someone said the ACA was “perfect”. This is going to end up the same way asking the crazies for a cite that liberals consider Obama the Messiah goes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/356 "2013-09-26T17:44:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sorry that my disbelief that you could be ignorant that the President wants revenue increases made me delay providing a cite. Would you also like a cite for the Earth being round? You are a really shiftless, useless, untrustworthy, dishonest poster. You have less regard for being truthful than even Bill Clinton. You said that Obama is “demanding other revenue streams” that aren’t related to his campaign promise to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000. You can’t provide a single cite for this. The one cite that has to be dragged out of your lazy ass doesn’t say what you think it says. Plus you make unsubstantiated charges that Obama has a secret tax conspiracy plan, but you don’t have evidence of it because its secret. Then, in a most dishonest way, you re-characterize your argument once you’re called on it in the Pit. In the Hillary thread, you’re accusing Obama of shifting the goalposts on taxes. In this thread, you scale that back to just saying Obama continues to support some kind of new revenue. You are an intellectual coward for not being able to back up what you write. So go back and find cites from as many Dopers as you can in which they call Obamacare perfect. I know you won’t. Either because you’re too lazy to back up the bullshit you invent, or you know you’re lying. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/357 "2013-09-27T00:28:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What a load of crap- I challenge you to find a single post on the SDMB where someone said the ACA was “perfect”. When you deny every specific downside mentioned, then the logical inference is that you believe there are no downsides. Except theoretical ones which you can’t name. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/358 "2013-09-27T00:33:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You are a really shiftless, useless, untrustworthy, dishonest poster. You have less regard for being truthful than even Bill Clinton. > > You said that Obama is “demanding other revenue streams” that aren’t related to his campaign promise to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000. You can’t provide a single cite for this. The one cite that has to be dragged out of your lazy ass doesn’t say what you think it says. Plus you make unsubstantiated charges that Obama has a secret tax conspiracy plan, but you don’t have evidence of it because its secret. > > Then, in a most dishonest way, you re-characterize your argument once you’re called on it in the Pit. In the Hillary thread, you’re accusing Obama of shifting the goalposts on taxes. In this thread, you scale that back to just saying Obama continues to support some kind of new revenue. > > You are an intellectual coward for not being able to back up what you write. > > So go back and find cites from as many Dopers as you can in which they call Obamacare perfect. I know you won’t. Either because you’re too lazy to back up the bullshit you invent, or you know you’re lying. Or, you could be a blithering idiot. I think I’ve been pretty clear. Let’s take this step by step in a way even you can understand: 1. President demands more revenue as a condition for a grand bargain. 2. President already got the bulk of what he wanted when the Bush tax cuts for those making over 400K expired. 3. President is not asking specifically to end the tax cuts for those making 250K-400K 4. The revenue increases the President has cited(such as ending breaks for corporate jets) does not raise significant revenue, sooooooo… 5. President wants substantial revenues, but he’s not telling us whose taxes he wants to raise or how, thus… 6. The revenue increases he wants are secret. As for the ACA being perfect, this is where thinking skills come in, an area I realize a lot of liberal Dopers have a problem with since there’s no cite that can substitute for basic logic. So I’ll say it again: If you refuse to acknowledge a single downside to a chose policy, then the logical inference is that you don’t believe there are any. Or you’re lying. Pick whichever you like. If you say “I realize ACA isn’t perfect”, but then react angrily to every mention of its tradeoffs, while naming none of your own, then you either do actually think it’s perfect, or you are lying in the pursuit of a political goal, which is pathetic given that SDMB is not a very high value place to push a political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/359 "2013-09-27T00:34:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When you deny every specific downside mentioned, then the logical inference is that you believe there are no downsides. Except theoretical ones which you can’t name. LOL. Look, if the alleged downsides are put forth by dupes, morons, and grifters it’s not surprising that they are easily shot down. And it’s hilarious that your thinking is so black and white that you equate, “Respond to criticism”, with, “Believes is perfect.” Smart people saw ACA as a helpful first step: read Ezra Klein for that POV. Anyway, I think **adaher** has essentially conceded the point in a practical sense, though not a psychological one: he got nothing and can’t substantiate his claims. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639/360 "2013-09-27T00:38:04Z")
On many of the specific measures, liberal Dopers denied, denied, denied, until reality proved critics right on many of those issues. So now the talking points have shifted to, “Well, we knew it wasn’t perfect.” The idea that I would push a political agenda on this board is pure projection. There are no votes to be won here. What’s pathetic is that some of you actually believe that someone might do that, which makes me think that some of you are actually trying to do that here. I can think of no other explanation for the continued denials of the most basic, and true, criticisms of ACA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-history-of-the-sdmb-has-anyone-ever-been-wrong-about-more-things-than-adaher/667639.md?page=19)