# In the name of fuck website designers, WTF is wrong with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687 "2022-07-09T22:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/121 "2022-07-15T22:21:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > BUT those 30-somethings also showed them how it _was_ what their potential customers wanted, and would bring in more business. Which it did… meanwhile, we were laying people off and scrambling to replace that client with a half dozen normal-sized ones. I’ve tried that. It often doesn’t work. Keep in mind, my client is almost always a boss or coworker. I have had a couple of exceptions, but usually for me it’s something in-house. I did a web site for the City of Corvallis, Oregon, specifically a web site that talked about Endangered Species Act enforcement, but in that case I took an existing web site and fixed a bunch of technical problems. That’s the only one off the top of my head that involved a web site owned by someone other than my employer. The worst situation was when I was working as a SharePoint administrator (that was one of many hats I wore, it was a small organization). I was asked to take their old SharePoint server, migrate it to a new version, and then overhaul the look of everything. My “client” was my boss (the CIO) in that situation. He insisted on using this skin that was a mixture of a jet black background and a red leather-looking skin in places. Text was red and yellow. It looked freaking hideous. And to make matters worse, it was a skin for the previous version of SharePoint, so I had to shoehorn it in to make it work on our new site. So it was glitchy to boot. It was hard to look at, but he thought it was the most gorgeous thing ever. Months later, after a number of shenanigans I won’t go into, my boss was gone. So I took the liberty of removing that skin so it wouldn’t look like a Hot Topic advertisement. I tried for something really clean and sensible, with a white background, some simple light green accents in places, and black text. I must have received dozens of thank you emails from people immediately after. Keep in mind that this SharePoint site was the internal web site for everyone at that organization, it was something that everyone interacted with all day every day. Some people had trouble even freaking reading it before. It’s possible that the web site you are griping about was put together by someone who warned the company that customers are going to be griping about it, but they didn’t care because it didn’t fit their “vision” or whatever. 😫 ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/122 "2022-07-16T01:10:30Z")
I am not by any means a web developer, but I’m usually the one given the job of putting something up on the university web content management system. If the people I do this for had a vision, even a bad one, then I’d have something to work with. I could always blame the rigidity of the CM that it doesn’t have black backgrounds and red leather text. My problem is that the “clients” have **no** vision, and no ideas. They know they want something, but they’re not sure what. I don’t know enough about design to be too helpful. When people ask me to “make them a website,” I tell them to send me some content they want put up, the format doesn’t matter, and some pictures to go with it, and I’ll arrange it nicely. Usually I don’t hear back. When I make websites where it _is_ my job to come up with the content, I always try and think about what information the people using the website will want, and make that the easiest to find. That’s why my websites always look like a list of topics, but (I hope) the list at least provides the information people came to find. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/123 "2022-07-16T01:48:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’ve tried that. It often doesn’t work. …the TLDR version, courtesy of the Oatmeal. > **[How a Web Design Goes Straight to Hell - The Oatmeal](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell)** > > This is for all the web designers out there who have suffered as I have suffered. For every successful “we showed them how it _was_ what their potential customers wanted, and would bring in more business”, you also get as many “FINE! I’ll give you a design that POPS!” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/124 "2022-07-16T02:42:46Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > My problem is that the “clients” have **no** vision, and no ideas. They know they want something, but they’re not sure what. The fully mature version of this ends up with you implementing what you, in the best possible faith, believe meets their inchoate and inexpressable desires. And then being told “No, that’s not really it.” I call this “not that rock, bring me another” incremental development ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/125 "2022-07-16T03:19:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the TLDR version, courtesy of the Oatmeal. That is painfully familiar. Especially the, “It’s great, but…” That always goes badly. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/126 "2022-07-16T05:25:06Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That is painfully familiar. …gosh yes. ☹ For a real life version of this playing out: watch this video from the people at the Futr. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KJfB1GLGZPQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Website Ready to Launch? – Design From Scratch Ep. 3") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJfB1GLGZPQ) Background: the design team were tasked with redesigning their own website from scratch, and they filmed the whole process from start-to-not-quite-the-end. The trailer for the series is here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lzmE3mYrbL0/maxresdefault.jpg "Design From Scratch, Trailer – A Documentary About The Futur") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmE3mYrbL0) If you watch the first video I posted you will see what happens when the CEO of the company saw what the team had been working on and outright rejected the design. The video ends there: but what happens next is that they went back and completely redid the website to match what the CEO asked for and they ended up with what, IMHO, was a complete and utter mess. The design that they presented in the video ticked all the boxes. The design they eventually went for was a horrible, confusing mess that missed all the major points from the original spec. (NB: If you visit the Futr website now it has been redesigned _again_: what is online now is much closer to the original design that was rejected by the CEO than what they initially built. ) I wrote this critique at the time. > [@](#): > > Its been a few months since the release of this video and I can’t help but notice how poorly aligned the stated goals for the website are (from the video) to the website as it exists at the moment. > > The answer to the question “why was there no UX designer” was essentially “we’ve done this so many times we didn’t need one.” > > But nothing above the fold makes the user journey easy. > > Where is the menu? > > We’ve got “Learn, shop, connect.” Is “Our Mission” that I see at the bottom of the page a menu item as well? > > And when I click the hamburger icon (on desktop) I get the “footer menu” combined with options for bootcamp and the pro group. But when I resize the screen for mobile all of the footer information disappears. > > How do I get to the “About” page or anything else I’m searching for without scrolling to the end of the page? > > You say you want to help users “find content much much easier” and follow that up by talking about stuff that users don’t know exist like the podcast. Do you know how hard it is to find information about the podcast? There is only a single mention of the podcast on the home page and that’s in the Call to Action: and that wasn’t a link to the podcast itself but a link for people to be able to sponsor the podcast. So where do I find the podcast? I couldn’t find it (readily) under “Learn”, or under “Shop” or even under “Connect.” > > Was the solution to Chris’s question on how to “connect the dots” to pretend the dot’s don’t exist? > > I know what you guys do because you create fantastic content. But I’d be lost if I visited your website without additional context. It’s confusing and messy and its hard to find anything. And the mission statement doesn’t really help with figuring out just what it is that you do. Sometimes what the client needs and what the client demands are two very different things. In some cases (like the one outlined by digs) you _can_ bring the client back-on-track. But to a degree in order to do that you have to be in the position to walk away from the client in order to make your point. If you _can’t_ do that (as in, you’ve already spent the deposit and you need the the final payment so you can pay rent next month) then its just a matter of doing what needs to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/127 "2022-07-16T07:17:51Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > In my experience, restaurant web sites have gotten WAY better in the past few years, largely due to the pandemic. > > Even just three or four years ago restaurant pages were plagued with terrible splash pages, music (a war crime, IMO) and other bits of style over substance. … > > Then the pandemic came along and every restaurant had to rely on takeout or delivery business, so most of them got their shit together and at least started keeping an accurate menu on the site. … That was the experience of a friend of mine, whose family owns and operates a local Chinese restaurant. Prior to the pandemic, they were on Facebook only (my friend’s idea, as his parents aren’t very good with social media). I asked Buddy why the restaurant had no web page, and he said, “We haven’t needed one so far.” I’m not surprised, as the food is fantastic. Then the pandemic hit, and restaurants had to close. For indoor dining, at least; pick-up and delivery were still permitted. And Buddy’s restaurant’s Facebook page was little help. Oh, it had plenty of photos of dishes, and “Love your food” comments, but it listed neither prices, nor all dishes. Photos of dishes are no good for pick-up or delivery when you don’t know what they are or what they cost. Buddy knew that the restaurant could be in trouble, so he realized that the restaurant needed a web page stating vital info, and so he set one up. To his credit, he used a simple page builder, such as is offered through hosting sites like GoDaddy, and though he’s no designer, he built what I’d call a very effective site for the restaurant. The home page has “Welcome to Jade Garden” (fictional name, but let it work for now) at the top, so there is no mistaking what site you’ve landed on. Below that, is a photo of the restaurant taken from the parking lot, with the sign saying “Jade Garden,” so you can recognize it when you arrive if you’ve placed a pick-up order. Below that, is “Open for pick-up and delivery, Noon - 9:00 PM.” And below that, the address, phone number, delivery charge, and a screenshot of a Google map, showing the restaurant’s location. The only link on the page is “View Menu,” which, if you click it, leads to another page with “Welcome to Jade Garden” at the top, and every menu item, with prices before tax. At the bottom is the phone number, delivery charge, and hours again. Overall, it is very simple, and lacks a lot of “Pop!” and “Edginess!” but it proved very effective. The restaurant survived through the pandemic, and does to this day, but it did so much more better when it had a proper webpage than it did when it only had a Facebook page. Even if that webpage was designed and built by Buddy, who had absolutely no design experience. Maybe that was a good thing, as he made it so simple that everybody could navigate it easily and get the information they need. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/128 "2022-07-16T17:17:42Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > It’s not 1/2 hour. The external professional you’ve hired spent 15-30 minutes minimum just communicating with you. That’s not how it works. The value of professional work in a situation like this, where the law does not require a licensed professional, is the time _I_ save by not having to do it myself. I could (and actually just did) the job in under 30 minutes, and almost all of that was searching StackExchange and W3schools like the amateur I am. I must assume a professional could do it significantly faster. I get paid an hourly rate too, with benefits, and it’s not anywhere near $200/hr. However, > [@Eonwe](#): > > In order for this kind of contract work to be at all profitable, there’s a minimum hours billed amount would be _at least_ one hour. I’m hiring a professional to implement something one-off for my business that takes ~an hour of work? $100 is really reasonable. This is understandable and I _did_ say \<$100 was a reasonable price for the webpage we wanted. I’ll backtrack to “\<=$100”. The website developers pitching $1,000/mo to design and host our website were still wasting everyone’s time, and the result was that our boss used one of those web design templates pitted in this thread, with the contact number at the bottom of the page under “Contact Us”. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/129 "2022-07-16T17:35:05Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Then the pandemic came along and every restaurant had to rely on takeout or delivery business, so most of them got their shit together and at least started keeping an accurate menu on the site. Well, some of them did, anyway. The ones that didn’t were among the many businesses that failed during the pandemic. Folks often forget that “survival of the fittest” works by those who aren’t fit enough, not surviving. > [@Spoons](#): > > Maybe that was a good thing, as he made it so simple that everybody could navigate it easily and get the information they need. Sounds like he started by knowing what he actually needed, and then did what he had to to get what he needed, and didn’t waste any time on what he didn’t need. If only everyone working on any sort of project worked that way. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/130 "2022-07-17T12:59:04Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Maybe that was a good thing, as he made it so simple that everybody could navigate it easily and get the information they need. [XKCD has a Venn diagram about that,](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/university_website.png) academia rather than restaurants but I think it’s universal. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/131 "2022-07-17T16:40:25Z")
That’s a pretty good reference to be made twice in the same thread. 🙂 (It’s post 27-ish, hard to tell in Discourse.) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/132 "2022-07-17T17:06:02Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Why the fuck do web pages have to be counterintuitive about these two basic things? If I go to a business’s website (for a local place) what do I ultimately want and need to know? > > That’s right - where you are and when you’re open. It’s not fucking rocket science, so stop hiding that stuff in “Home”, “About” or “Contact Us”. How about a front page that shows, up front, your address and business hours? > > FFS, why do they bury this, the basic yet critical stuff in some clever and less than obvious location? I absolutely totally 100% approve of this rant. As a former web designer, I cannot imagine what they think websites are even for. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/133 "2022-07-17T17:42:30Z")
I often want to know how to find out more/contact a local farm, csa, or farmstand. This level of business is the one I find most lacking in common sense. Pictures of sunlit fields, sheep, or people holding up tomatoes, but nothing – NOTHING ANYWHERE – on where they actually are, a phone, an email. At best, on the contact page you get one of those boxes to fill in with your message and a send button. And they almost always have a facebook page with exactly the same stuff on it, no location, or “in lovely Springfield”. Really chaps me. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/134 "2022-07-17T18:58:28Z")
[doublechecks web page made years ago by a friend] [approximate location and where to buy in the top text paragraph on home page links to contact page and market page and availability at both top and side market page tells you exact location and time of market contact page gives name, phone number, mailing/physical address of farm, and email, as an image] ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/135 "2022-07-17T19:21:33Z")
If only your friend made all the web pages. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/136 "2022-07-17T21:07:29Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s a pretty good reference to be made twice in the same thread. 🙂 Dang it. Too lazy to look. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > As a former web designer, I cannot imagine what they think websites are even for. To show off their awesome designers skillz, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/137 "2022-07-18T01:45:22Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I don’t have Facebook so if a company _only_ has a web presence on Facebook, I give my money to someone else. Even worse is emergency services. When they want to get info out in a hurry many only use FB _or_ Twitter; it would be fairly easy to do a one-time setup so that that info goes to FB, Twitter, **& a scrolling feed on the department’s / town’s website** with the appropriate person keying it in only once. Putting out emergency information (“There’s a haz-mat fire at \_\_\_; anyone in the area stay inside & keep your windows closed”) to only certain people willing to use a third-party app is unconscionable. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Tierce](#): > > > > you to select your country from a list of 193? > > And, despite the business being located in the USA, and primarily serving the USA, they dutifully and respectfully put the 193 countries in alphabetical order, with “United States” fifth from the bottom right above Upper Volta and Zambia. > > Which Is why I am glad I live in Arizona and no longer Wisconsin. 🙂 Don’t forget Palau; it’s not even a state; it’s a US protectorate about the size of my small community. Why the eff does it show up first if you want to enter Pennsylvania??? > [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > I guess this thread isn’t about porn websites? The title threw me. > > This is why even profane rants should pay attention to proper punctuation. Brings a whole new [meaning](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/6c/04/eb6c047794b7582d8ba50b8273804c0b--happy-happy-happy-school-stuff.jpg) _::flees::_ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/138 "2022-07-18T05:59:01Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Don’t forget Palau; it’s not even a state; it’s a US protectorate about the size of my small community. It’s not a state because it’s a sovereign nation. It is in “free association” with the United States, in that the US provides defense and other kinds of aid, but the US doesn’t govern it. It signed its constitution in 1979 and was established as a republic in 1981. The US did govern the area since capturing it from Japan in WWII, before it established independence. It does have a pretty small population, a bit over 18,000 people. It’s a chain of almost 350 small islands, most of which aren’t habitable. Palau isn’t the smallest country by population though, it’s the 4th smallest after Tuvalu, Nauru, and Vatican City. (Vatican City has a population of 800!) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/139 "2022-07-18T14:43:24Z")
> **[What I want from a restaurant website - The Oatmeal](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/restaurant_website)** > > A list of things I'd like restaurant websites to provide. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687/140 "2022-07-18T15:02:31Z")
My pet peeve with news articles and technology articles is this: Put the date at the beginning of the article. It makes all the difference if the tragedy happened yesterday or if it happened in 2007. Likewise, the neat article on some obscure part of Windows having security issues while interacting with a particular brand of NAS becomes less relevant if someone actually includes “July, 2003” in the headline. It makes it easier to sift through the dross. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-name-of-fuck-website-designers-wtf-is-wrong-with-you/967687.md?page=8)