# In the same vain or vein? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483 "2003-07-01T01:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/1 "2003-07-01T01:52:40Z")
“In the same v **e** in” “In the same v **a** in” Which is the correct form of this transitional phrase? (search turned up nada) Bonus points for cites! ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/2 "2003-07-01T02:05:51Z")
The expression is properly “in the same vein.” The definition of _vein_ as given [here](http://212.187.155.84/wnv/Subdirectories_for_Search/Glossary&References_Contents/KeywordsContents/V/vein.htm) is: > [@](#): > > “(1) Rib supporting an insect wing; (2) vessel carrying blood from capillaries toward the heart; (3) conduit for fluid in a leaf.”(B79 - Animalia (Animals) / Plantae (Plants) associated terms) I believe the usage in the expression would come from parts 2 and 3 above, where the vein is a pathway, the idea being that the thought being introduced by the expression “in the same vein” takes the same or a similar pathway as the referenced idea. I can’t imagine how “vain” would be worked into the usage. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/3 "2003-07-01T02:19:51Z")
Vein. > [@](#): > > c. in the vein, in a fit or suitable mood for something. [Link](http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00275594?query_type=word&queryword=vein&edition=2e&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=3&search_id=VENx-Wr4zfB-574&hilite=00275594)- section 14 c., way down near the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/4 "2003-07-01T02:29:12Z")
It’s vein. As to an explaination, definitions 4 and 5 for Vein here might fit better than the 3 from Ringo’s link: > **[Definition of vein | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vein)** > > Definition of vein from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. > [@](#): > > 1. Geology. A regularly shaped and lengthy occurrence of an ore; a lode. > 2. A long wavy strip of a different shade or color, as in wood or marble, or as mold in cheese ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/5 "2003-07-01T02:36:58Z")
It might at that. Nevertheless, the idea with a blood vessel, a conduit, a lengthy occurence or a long strip is one of connection. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/6 "2003-07-01T02:53:00Z")
And I’ll note that a google search on both phrases turns up quite a few “vain” usages, none of which make much sense. I suppose, _maybe_, if you were comparing a couple of prima donnas… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/7 "2003-07-01T02:54:58Z")
vein, no question in my pointy head about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/8 "2003-07-01T02:56:27Z")
Vein. I thought it always came form the mining definition… along with the golds and diamonds and what have you… ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/9 "2003-07-01T10:53:20Z")
A useful resource for this sort of question is the [Collins Cobuild Concordance](http://titania.cobuild.collins.co.uk/form.html), a searchable database of English sentences used as the basis of their dictionaries: search it for “in the same vein|vain” to match both forms, and it has nearly 20 uses of “vein” and none of “vain”. ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/10 "2003-07-01T11:10:03Z")
Case closed- can we deal with ‘For all intensive purposes’ now? ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/11 "2003-07-01T11:12:48Z")
You mean, “For all intents and purposes”? ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/12 "2003-07-01T11:20:19Z")
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/13 "2003-07-01T11:24:38Z")
**vain** isn’t even a noun! Oh, who am I kidding, I’ve no idea where the phrase comes from, I just assumed it was vein. ---
**Author:** ![czerwins\_sbcglobal.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@czerwins\_sbcglobal.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/czerwins_sbcglobal.net)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/14 "2010-09-15T01:49:58Z")
> **[Vain, Vein, or Vane?](http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/vain_vein_vane.htm)** > > Vain, vein, and vane are easy to confuse. Vein is a blood vessel or a style. Vain means self admiring or futile. Vane is a stabilizing fin. In vain means to try without success. (1) A vein is a blood vessel or a distinctive style. (2) Vain means ‘self admiring’ or ‘futile’. The term ‘in vain’ means ‘without success’. (3) A vane is a stabilizing fin or blade. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/15 "2010-09-15T02:36:46Z")
Since this zombie has risen from the grave, it’s worth pointing out that Google gives 13M results for vein vs 270K results for vain. Either the OP didn’t do a very good job of searching, or we are witnessing the march of progress before our very eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/16 "2010-09-15T13:54:29Z")
> [@WILLASS](#): > > buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former. I’m 63 and only heard or used the term “buck naked” since childhood. The internet is full of speculation as to where the term came from, including that it may have originally morphed from “butt naked”, which doesn’t seem likely. I never heard “butt naked” until recent years. Ah crap, I’m talking to a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/17 "2010-09-15T14:14:20Z")
> [@WILLASS](#): > > buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former. You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I’ve never heard “buck naked” before. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/18 "2010-09-15T14:32:20Z")
Naked zombies!!! ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/19 "2010-09-15T14:40:40Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > > [@WILLASS](#): > > > > buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former. > > You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I’ve never heard “buck naked” before. The original form (and still the correct one, at least here in the UK) is “buck naked”. It seems to have mutated in recent years, in the same way that “off your own bat” is often mangled into “off your own back”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483/20 "2010-09-15T15:01:59Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > > [@WILLASS](#): > > > > buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former. > > You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I’ve never heard “buck naked” before. Am I correct that in your neck of the woods, they also say “nekkid”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-the-same-vain-or-vein/185483.md?page=2)